4 ms·

I disagree, I got to B2 in 2 years in Germany by simply making time to go to my local Volkshochschule to learn (i.e. evening classes). Why? Because it was fun

I disagree, I got to B2 in 2 years in Germany by simply making time to go to my local Volkshochschule to learn (i.e. evening classes). Why? Because it was fun and I enjoyed learning a langauge. If you want to learn, you will. If living in Germany for eight years doesn't really make you want to take learning German seriously, then what will? I know many people who've been in Germany 10+ years and can't speak German. Honestly, if I was them I'd have either left or killed myself by now, I cannot fathom sustaining that isolation for ten years. But they are built differently, they are somehow happy anyway. I would not be. And Anki is a nicety but won't revolutionise your learning. In fact in the end I stopped using it and switched to just reading German books and watching German movies.

watwut 2y ago
> if I was them I'd have either left or killed myself by now, I cannot fathom sustaining that isolation for ten years They live in English/Russian/Turkish/Arabic speaking bubbles. They are not isolated from people, only from Germans.
- twixfel 2y ago
  I understand that perfectly, but that's still isolation from wider society. Like living like a Gypsy or an illiterate Pakistani housewife in Northern England. Why would I actively choose that life for myself, when it's not the one I was born into? So I learned German. But somehow these people are happy anyway. And I don't get it. But I guess to be happy no matter what is a good skill to have, so I don't think I'm better than them or anything like that. I don't buy into this shit "oh you're in Germany you must learn because it's disrespectful not to", either.
  - watwut 2y ago
    Illiterate Pakistany housewifes are connected to other Pakistani housewifes. Their loneliness levels are lower then ours. Likewise Gypsies - they live very communally and socially. We are perceived as cold and non-communal by them. Their issues are poverty, violence, lack of education that makes it impossible for you to really earn money. The expats speaking English do not have these issues.
    - twixfel 2y ago
      I don't care how much fun they have with other gypsies or Pakistani housewives. I am telling you directly that I don't want that life for me. That's all. So I learned German, because it is in accordance with my own ideals and how I would like to lead my own life.
- aguaviva 2y ago
  The newer migrants might still be linguistically isolated. And the poor, helpless Amis also in any case. But the Türkendeutsche no longer are - not the under-50 set, anyway. Try ordering a Börek in Berlin sometime - the person serving you will answer in perfect Berlinerisch. Socially/politically they might be in some kind of a bubble, but so are the rest of us.

watwut 2y ago

> if I was them I'd have either left or killed myself by now, I cannot fathom sustaining that isolation for ten years They live in English/Russian/Turkish/Arabic speaking bubbles. They are not isolated from people, only from Germans.

twixfel 2y ago
I understand that perfectly, but that's still isolation from wider society. Like living like a Gypsy or an illiterate Pakistani housewife in Northern England. Why would I actively choose that life for myself, when it's not the one I was born into? So I learned German. But somehow these people are happy anyway. And I don't get it. But I guess to be happy no matter what is a good skill to have, so I don't think I'm better than them or anything like that. I don't buy into this shit "oh you're in Germany you must learn because it's disrespectful not to", either.
- watwut 2y ago
  Illiterate Pakistany housewifes are connected to other Pakistani housewifes. Their loneliness levels are lower then ours. Likewise Gypsies - they live very communally and socially. We are perceived as cold and non-communal by them. Their issues are poverty, violence, lack of education that makes it impossible for you to really earn money. The expats speaking English do not have these issues.
  - twixfel 2y ago
    I don't care how much fun they have with other gypsies or Pakistani housewives. I am telling you directly that I don't want that life for me. That's all. So I learned German, because it is in accordance with my own ideals and how I would like to lead my own life.
aguaviva 2y ago
The newer migrants might still be linguistically isolated. And the poor, helpless Amis also in any case. But the Türkendeutsche no longer are - not the under-50 set, anyway. Try ordering a Börek in Berlin sometime - the person serving you will answer in perfect Berlinerisch. Socially/politically they might be in some kind of a bubble, but so are the rest of us.