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Grayjay dev here. If you want it to use your user directory like other apps, just remove the file called "Portable". Keep in mind that it just uses your working

by koen31 2y ago

Grayjay dev here. If you want it to use your user directory like other apps, just remove the file called "Portable". Keep in mind that it just uses your working directory to write files otherwise.

godDLL 2y ago
That's a windows-ism, we don't like that kind of stuff. Not on any other OS we don't.
- freedomben 2y ago
  Parent is not wrong, but definitely could have some improved manners and tact. As a linux user I wanted to make sure to say thank you for supporting and thinking about linux!
  - santoshalper 2y ago
    Actually, parent is wrong. You're not supposed to do that shit on Windows either. That's what AppData is for. Writing configuration files and folders to "Documents" or the user's home folder is sloppy shit.
    - sunshowers 2y ago
      I agree that this should be in the XDG directory or AppData, but be kind, y'all -- this is open source, it is a gift someone has labored over and given you. There are much nicer ways to suggest improvements than calling it "sloppy shit". edit: it's not actually open source by the OSI definition it seems [1], but it is reasonably close. [1] https://futo.org/about/futo-statement-on-opensource/ https://futo.org/about/futo-statement-on-opensource/
      - StrangeDoctor 2y ago
        Sure, things can always have gone better, but this is data loss/corruption territory. It's asking for trouble and hurt feelings. I think a strong response is ok.
  - Teever 2y ago
    What exactly is wrong with how they expressed themselves? Is the word "hate" really so odious?
    - bisby 2y ago
      I was very blunt and impersonal. People worked hard on a thing and my first reaction was criticism, without even the added overall view of "I love this thing, but here is a small thing that bothers me." I could have been more courteous and human about things. I stand by the points I made, but I could have been friendlier. I normally make an effort to be friendly as I can about things, but I absolutely did not here. I hope that nothing I said came across as vitriol, but rather, valid criticism. I'm a strong believer in criticizing the things you love, but I need to remember that random comments on HN aren't the place where people know I love the thing, and my criticism needs context. So no, it wasn't really that odious, but it was other things. Do I feel stricken with guilt or remorse about what I said? No. Could I have been friendlier? yes. Should I have been friendlier? Probably.
      - acjohnson55 2y ago
        I appreciate the reflection here.
  - Suppafly 2y ago
    >Parent is not wrong, but definitely could have some improved manners and tact. I don't understand the weird tone policing that people are trying to do, there is literally nothing wrong with the parent's comment and pretending otherwise is weird.
    - gtsop 2y ago
      I didn't see it as tone policing. From my point of view, I saw a very interesting application being shared and I hoped it would be good and prosperous so i can use it. When the first comment says "i hate that you do X" it is a bit discouraging towards a team of developers who have probably poured tons of free hours into making this. Words play with psychology, and it is my personal interest that these devs have good morale to make this app great, and that meand giving them feedback about obvious mistakes in a tone that does not hurt this morale. I hope that make sense
      - Suppafly 2y ago
        "i hate that you do x" is perfectly normal, you're being weird.
        braiamp 2y ago
        And that's not even the words used, they said: > I absolutely hate <stuff that does X> like this
        bisby 2y ago
        That's not even the words I used either. > I absolutely hate having stuff automatically create anything in my home directory like this. Which is > I absolutely hate <action> like this Which is not > I absolutely hate <thing that does action> like this I quite like grayjay. I just dislike this one thing it does.
        nozzlegear 2y ago
        Taking "I hate that you do x" as a combative or rude dismissal is perfectly normal too.
- indrora 2y ago
  Even Windows has %appdata% which is where you put stuff on disk that you need to stash away. There's also function calls iirc which will give you a handle to a temporary file if you need it.
  - LeonB 2y ago
    And if you’re feeling particularly Sadomasochistic there’s always the Windows Registry.
    - chupasaurus 2y ago
      Hey, that's NSFW content on HN! Also I still find it funny that OpenSSH client shipped via feature uses %HOMEDIR%\.ssh
SpaghettiCthulu 2y ago
You should be using `~/.local/share`, `~/.config`, and other standard directories on Unix systems. macOS has its own conventions.
- zamalek 2y ago
  You shouldn't even use those, at least hardcoded. Follow the XDG Base Directories spec: https://specifications.freedesktop.org/basedir-spec/latest/ https://specifications.freedesktop.org/basedir-spec/latest/
  - SpaghettiCthulu 2y ago
    Ah, right. Good point!
Lariscus 2y ago
Is a Flatpak release planned? I am interested in Grayjay but don't really want to deal with a binary that lives outside of my distros package manager.
ChocolateGod 2y ago
NixOS user here, where running precompiled binaries from your downloads folder won't work. Could you look at supporting a Flatpak for Linux? If unsure, I'll happily throw a manifest together and post it on a MR.
- Zefiroj 2y ago
  nix-ld[1] and envfs[2] provide a decent workaround for unpatched binaries, in case you haven't heard of these tools yet. [1] https://github.com/nix-community/nix-ld https://github.com/nix-community/nix-ld [2] https://github.com/Mic92/envfs https://github.com/Mic92/envfs The blog post linked by [1] is quite good.
  - ChocolateGod 2y ago
    I use NixOS for the base system and Flatpak+Containers for everything else. I would rather keep it this way as it keeps everything nice and separated, and less chance of things breaking from Nix being rolling.
- koen31 2y ago
  Grayjay dev here, we want to provide the app however people want to consume it (binaries, flatpak, appimage, ...) but it will take us some time to get everything as it should be.
znpy 2y ago
thank you for the great work!
bisby 2y ago
Sorry, to be clear, I dont wan't Grayjay data in my user directory AT ALL. Portable is basically what I want, I'm just very untactfully dropping feedback about where the data is placed. Even with the "Portable" file, it creates a directory `/home/bisby/Grayjay`. I don't want that. No app should ever put a file or directory directly in `/home/bisby` without me asking it to. The Linux standard for "where should an app put it's files" is defined the XDG spec that I had previously linked (https://specifications.freedesktop.org/basedir-spec/latest/ https://specifications.freedesktop.org/basedir-spec/latest/). The summary is that user specific data should live in $XDG_DATA_HOME and config should live in $XDG_CONFIG_HOME (and various other things like $XDG_CACHE_HOME). If these values are unset, there are predefined places to put the files (eg, data in $HOME/.local/share or config in $HOME/.config, cache in $HOME/.cache). This puts all the Grayjay data in places like /home/bisby/.config/Grayjay (instead of /home/bisby/Grayjay) which is nested away inside a hidden directory and structured in a consistent way. This would be the equivalent of putting data in %AppData% in windows instead of cluttering someone's "My Documents" (or whatever the modern equivalent of that is). Some of the Linux decisions feel a bit like linux is a complete afterthought, but included because Linux users tend to agree with the FUTO philosophies. That is a reasonable thing given the Linux market share, and for "Build Version: 2" that I'm seeing the app info, I'm grateful that linux is included this early. This looks like it can probably replace freetube for me. However, it would go a long way if things are done to make sure they are done the "right way" on Linux (ie, on packaging and on directory specs). Thanks for the work you've done on freeing up the web.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- karlgkk 2y ago
  If you're launching it as "Portable", and you're launching it from your home directory, it's going to place the mutable data in the current directory. This is very standard for portable apps. So no, "portable" is not what you want. If you launch it as non-portable and it drops a folder in ~, then that is a problem.
  - bisby 2y ago
atoav 2y ago
Please just adhere to the XDG-standards. Although my co-poster here didn't use the most diplomatic way of phrasing their grievance Grayjay is better off if it sticks to well established standards. You would probably look weird at an software that installs itself in C:\MYAWESOMEAPPLICATION instead of using the Windows program folder like literally every other piece of software (except for legacy stuff like LTSpice). Creating visible directories in the home folder without asking is the Linux equivalent of doing just that. Check if the XDG environment variables are set and store your stuff in these places — as it is now can be used as a last resort fallback. For reading config/data you do the same.
- nullpoint420 2y ago
  This. Hopefully the other post won't discourage them!
- ddingus 2y ago
  Though I do not mind folder create in $HOME at all, I second this recommendation. I just glanced through that spec and find it agreeable..

by koen31 2y ago

Grayjay dev here. If you want it to use your user directory like other apps, just remove the file called "Portable". Keep in mind that it just uses your working directory to write files otherwise.

godDLL 2y ago

That's a windows-ism, we don't like that kind of stuff. Not on any other OS we don't.

freedomben 2y ago
Parent is not wrong, but definitely could have some improved manners and tact. As a linux user I wanted to make sure to say thank you for supporting and thinking about linux!
- santoshalper 2y ago
  Actually, parent is wrong. You're not supposed to do that shit on Windows either. That's what AppData is for. Writing configuration files and folders to "Documents" or the user's home folder is sloppy shit.
  - sunshowers 2y ago
    I agree that this should be in the XDG directory or AppData, but be kind, y'all -- this is open source, it is a gift someone has labored over and given you. There are much nicer ways to suggest improvements than calling it "sloppy shit". edit: it's not actually open source by the OSI definition it seems [1], but it is reasonably close. [1] https://futo.org/about/futo-statement-on-opensource/ https://futo.org/about/futo-statement-on-opensource/
    - StrangeDoctor 2y ago
      Sure, things can always have gone better, but this is data loss/corruption territory. It's asking for trouble and hurt feelings. I think a strong response is ok.
- Teever 2y ago
  What exactly is wrong with how they expressed themselves? Is the word "hate" really so odious?
  - bisby 2y ago
    I was very blunt and impersonal. People worked hard on a thing and my first reaction was criticism, without even the added overall view of "I love this thing, but here is a small thing that bothers me." I could have been more courteous and human about things. I stand by the points I made, but I could have been friendlier. I normally make an effort to be friendly as I can about things, but I absolutely did not here. I hope that nothing I said came across as vitriol, but rather, valid criticism. I'm a strong believer in criticizing the things you love, but I need to remember that random comments on HN aren't the place where people know I love the thing, and my criticism needs context. So no, it wasn't really that odious, but it was other things. Do I feel stricken with guilt or remorse about what I said? No. Could I have been friendlier? yes. Should I have been friendlier? Probably.
    - acjohnson55 2y ago
      I appreciate the reflection here.
- Suppafly 2y ago
  >Parent is not wrong, but definitely could have some improved manners and tact. I don't understand the weird tone policing that people are trying to do, there is literally nothing wrong with the parent's comment and pretending otherwise is weird.
  - gtsop 2y ago
    I didn't see it as tone policing. From my point of view, I saw a very interesting application being shared and I hoped it would be good and prosperous so i can use it. When the first comment says "i hate that you do X" it is a bit discouraging towards a team of developers who have probably poured tons of free hours into making this. Words play with psychology, and it is my personal interest that these devs have good morale to make this app great, and that meand giving them feedback about obvious mistakes in a tone that does not hurt this morale. I hope that make sense
    - Suppafly 2y ago
      "i hate that you do x" is perfectly normal, you're being weird.
      - braiamp 2y ago
        And that's not even the words used, they said: > I absolutely hate <stuff that does X> like this
        bisby 2y ago
        That's not even the words I used either. > I absolutely hate having stuff automatically create anything in my home directory like this. Which is > I absolutely hate <action> like this Which is not > I absolutely hate <thing that does action> like this I quite like grayjay. I just dislike this one thing it does.
      - nozzlegear 2y ago
        Taking "I hate that you do x" as a combative or rude dismissal is perfectly normal too.
indrora 2y ago
Even Windows has %appdata% which is where you put stuff on disk that you need to stash away. There's also function calls iirc which will give you a handle to a temporary file if you need it.
- LeonB 2y ago
  And if you’re feeling particularly Sadomasochistic there’s always the Windows Registry.
  - chupasaurus 2y ago
    Hey, that's NSFW content on HN! Also I still find it funny that OpenSSH client shipped via feature uses %HOMEDIR%\.ssh

SpaghettiCthulu 2y ago

You should be using `~/.local/share`, `~/.config`, and other standard directories on Unix systems. macOS has its own conventions.

zamalek 2y ago
You shouldn't even use those, at least hardcoded. Follow the XDG Base Directories spec: https://specifications.freedesktop.org/basedir-spec/latest/ https://specifications.freedesktop.org/basedir-spec/latest/
- SpaghettiCthulu 2y ago
  Ah, right. Good point!

Lariscus 2y ago

Is a Flatpak release planned? I am interested in Grayjay but don't really want to deal with a binary that lives outside of my distros package manager.

ChocolateGod 2y ago

NixOS user here, where running precompiled binaries from your downloads folder won't work. Could you look at supporting a Flatpak for Linux? If unsure, I'll happily throw a manifest together and post it on a MR.

Zefiroj 2y ago
nix-ld[1] and envfs[2] provide a decent workaround for unpatched binaries, in case you haven't heard of these tools yet. [1] https://github.com/nix-community/nix-ld https://github.com/nix-community/nix-ld [2] https://github.com/Mic92/envfs https://github.com/Mic92/envfs The blog post linked by [1] is quite good.
- ChocolateGod 2y ago
  I use NixOS for the base system and Flatpak+Containers for everything else. I would rather keep it this way as it keeps everything nice and separated, and less chance of things breaking from Nix being rolling.
koen31 2y ago
Grayjay dev here, we want to provide the app however people want to consume it (binaries, flatpak, appimage, ...) but it will take us some time to get everything as it should be.

znpy 2y ago

thank you for the great work!

bisby 2y ago

Sorry, to be clear, I dont wan't Grayjay data in my user directory AT ALL. Portable is basically what I want, I'm just very untactfully dropping feedback about where the data is placed. Even with the "Portable" file, it creates a directory `/home/bisby/Grayjay`. I don't want that. No app should ever put a file or directory directly in `/home/bisby` without me asking it to. The Linux standard for "where should an app put it's files" is defined the XDG spec that I had previously linked (https://specifications.freedesktop.org/basedir-spec/latest/ https://specifications.freedesktop.org/basedir-spec/latest/). The summary is that user specific data should live in $XDG_DATA_HOME and config should live in $XDG_CONFIG_HOME (and various other things like $XDG_CACHE_HOME). If these values are unset, there are predefined places to put the files (eg, data in $HOME/.local/share or config in $HOME/.config, cache in $HOME/.cache). This puts all the Grayjay data in places like /home/bisby/.config/Grayjay (instead of /home/bisby/Grayjay) which is nested away inside a hidden directory and structured in a consistent way. This would be the equivalent of putting data in %AppData% in windows instead of cluttering someone's "My Documents" (or whatever the modern equivalent of that is). Some of the Linux decisions feel a bit like linux is a complete afterthought, but included because Linux users tend to agree with the FUTO philosophies. That is a reasonable thing given the Linux market share, and for "Build Version: 2" that I'm seeing the app info, I'm grateful that linux is included this early. This looks like it can probably replace freetube for me. However, it would go a long way if things are done to make sure they are done the "right way" on Linux (ie, on packaging and on directory specs). Thanks for the work you've done on freeing up the web.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
karlgkk 2y ago
If you're launching it as "Portable", and you're launching it from your home directory, it's going to place the mutable data in the current directory. This is very standard for portable apps. So no, "portable" is not what you want. If you launch it as non-portable and it drops a folder in ~, then that is a problem.
- bisby 2y ago

atoav 2y ago

Please just adhere to the XDG-standards. Although my co-poster here didn't use the most diplomatic way of phrasing their grievance Grayjay is better off if it sticks to well established standards. You would probably look weird at an software that installs itself in C:\MYAWESOMEAPPLICATION instead of using the Windows program folder like literally every other piece of software (except for legacy stuff like LTSpice). Creating visible directories in the home folder without asking is the Linux equivalent of doing just that. Check if the XDG environment variables are set and store your stuff in these places — as it is now can be used as a last resort fallback. For reading config/data you do the same.

nullpoint420 2y ago
This. Hopefully the other post won't discourage them!
ddingus 2y ago
Though I do not mind folder create in $HOME at all, I second this recommendation. I just glanced through that spec and find it agreeable..