5 ms·

Yeah, it's a bit tricky when the code you are documenting is copyright, and you aren't the copyright owner. Website is one thing, but publishing a book? I suspe

Yeah, it's a bit tricky when the code you are documenting is copyright, and you aren't the copyright owner. Website is one thing, but publishing a book? I suspect that is asking for trouble. Also, books can't be updated, and I update this stuff all the time...

WillAdams 2y ago
Maybe just make a PDF and publish that to the site? I am doing that at: https://github.com/WillAdams/gcodepreview/blob/main/gcodepreview.pdf https://github.com/WillAdams/gcodepreview/blob/main/gcodepre... (but admittedly it's a very different project and no copyright complexities)
- MarkMoxon 2y ago
  Honestly, for me personally and on this specific project with its specific history of copyright issues (look it up!), that would be crossing the line into disrespecting the copyright situation. Websites are ethereal, in a sense, as they are easy to switch off and hard to copy and distribute. PDFs and books are the opposite. Sure, websites get archived and repos get forked, but I think PDFs and books fall into a different area. I run these projects very cautiously and very carefully. I don't think publishing a book or PDF containing copyright material is a good idea in this instance, to be honest!
  - kstrauser 2y ago
    I understand and respect your opinion there. In the spectrum of copyright violation, I might be willing to let my kid install a copy of a game I bought on their own computer, but I would definitely not sell copies of it. But it’s a massive bummer to me that copyright is preventing someone from publishing their research on a 40 year old game that hasn’t been available for sale in decades. I don’t know exactly where that lands on my moral spectrum, but I put it far closer to the left than to the right, legalities aside.
  - WillAdams 2y ago
    Cogent points. If you are able to get permission for a game code and then do this sort of analysis as a Literate Program and publish that as a book, you'd be in rather rarified company, and I'd certainly buy a copy.
  - hathawsh 2y ago
    You don't need to be the copyright owner. All you need is a license from the copyright owner. It can't hurt to contact Ian Bell and see what you can negotiate. http://www.iancgbell.clara.net/ http://www.iancgbell.clara.net/ Edit: never mind, it sounds like Ian sold his copyright and now there's a mess. Hmm. https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2017/03/elite-dangerous-crowdfunding-campaign-reinstated-after-copyright-flap/ https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2017/03/elite-dangerous-crowd...
    - MarkMoxon 2y ago
      Well, exactly. This project is a hobby, and I’d like to try to keep it as my happy place! Besides, I’ve published PDFs of my travel writing sites, and the thought of trying to keep a code repository, a website and a PDF in sync fills me with dread…
      - hathawsh 2y ago
        Good for you! Keep it simple.
    - jlarcombe 2y ago
      Interesting that, Chris Jordan was part of Acornsoft when the original game was being developed and is also well known for his Hybrid Music System for the BBC Micro, way ahead of its time.
0xDEADFED5 2y ago
I've never owned a C64 or played Elite, but the dedication shown to your hobby is inspiring, thanks for the effort, it's very cool.
- MarkMoxon 2y ago
  Thank you! I came at it from the BBC Micro angle, which was the system I grew up with, and I have to say that analysing Elite been a brilliant way to learn about other 8-bit platforms. I’ve documented the NES version and now the Commodore 64, and the Apple II is next. It’s the retro equivalent of discovering that if you like the Beatles, you’ll probably like the Stones, The Who and Pink Floyd. :-)

WillAdams 2y ago

Maybe just make a PDF and publish that to the site? I am doing that at: https://github.com/WillAdams/gcodepreview/blob/main/gcodepreview.pdf https://github.com/WillAdams/gcodepreview/blob/main/gcodepre... (but admittedly it's a very different project and no copyright complexities)

MarkMoxon 2y ago
Honestly, for me personally and on this specific project with its specific history of copyright issues (look it up!), that would be crossing the line into disrespecting the copyright situation. Websites are ethereal, in a sense, as they are easy to switch off and hard to copy and distribute. PDFs and books are the opposite. Sure, websites get archived and repos get forked, but I think PDFs and books fall into a different area. I run these projects very cautiously and very carefully. I don't think publishing a book or PDF containing copyright material is a good idea in this instance, to be honest!
- kstrauser 2y ago
  I understand and respect your opinion there. In the spectrum of copyright violation, I might be willing to let my kid install a copy of a game I bought on their own computer, but I would definitely not sell copies of it. But it’s a massive bummer to me that copyright is preventing someone from publishing their research on a 40 year old game that hasn’t been available for sale in decades. I don’t know exactly where that lands on my moral spectrum, but I put it far closer to the left than to the right, legalities aside.
- WillAdams 2y ago
  Cogent points. If you are able to get permission for a game code and then do this sort of analysis as a Literate Program and publish that as a book, you'd be in rather rarified company, and I'd certainly buy a copy.
- hathawsh 2y ago
  You don't need to be the copyright owner. All you need is a license from the copyright owner. It can't hurt to contact Ian Bell and see what you can negotiate. http://www.iancgbell.clara.net/ http://www.iancgbell.clara.net/ Edit: never mind, it sounds like Ian sold his copyright and now there's a mess. Hmm. https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2017/03/elite-dangerous-crowdfunding-campaign-reinstated-after-copyright-flap/ https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2017/03/elite-dangerous-crowd...
  - MarkMoxon 2y ago
    Well, exactly. This project is a hobby, and I’d like to try to keep it as my happy place! Besides, I’ve published PDFs of my travel writing sites, and the thought of trying to keep a code repository, a website and a PDF in sync fills me with dread…
    - hathawsh 2y ago
      Good for you! Keep it simple.
  - jlarcombe 2y ago
    Interesting that, Chris Jordan was part of Acornsoft when the original game was being developed and is also well known for his Hybrid Music System for the BBC Micro, way ahead of its time.

0xDEADFED5 2y ago

I've never owned a C64 or played Elite, but the dedication shown to your hobby is inspiring, thanks for the effort, it's very cool.

MarkMoxon 2y ago
Thank you! I came at it from the BBC Micro angle, which was the system I grew up with, and I have to say that analysing Elite been a brilliant way to learn about other 8-bit platforms. I’ve documented the NES version and now the Commodore 64, and the Apple II is next. It’s the retro equivalent of discovering that if you like the Beatles, you’ll probably like the Stones, The Who and Pink Floyd. :-)