4 ms·

Vans to complement buses are definitely a thing in São Paulo, and the cost of labor is not a limiting factor.

AstralStorm 2y ago
Really the lack of stops and parking places is, and would be even worse for self driving vehicles deployed in numbers. Unless it's self driving motor bikes or such small personal transportation.
mulmen 2y ago
In my city the cost of labor is very much a limiting factor. Robot drivers will open up transit options that aren’t practical now.
- rglullis 2y ago
  How much are you willing to bet that the price of a Waymo ride will converge to be within 10% of the price of an Uber ride today? (Also, followup question: how are the prices of Uber rides compared with regular taxi service, now that Uber has stopped subsidizing most of their trips?)
  - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
    > How much are you willing to bet that the price of a Waymo ride will converge to be within 10% of the price of an Uber ride today? It should! That’s the competition! Hell, I’ll pay a premium for a quieter, safer (and for now, due to novelty, more fun) ride. And if Waymo maintain a monopoly that will stay the case. Otherwise, the normal thing will happen. > how are the prices of Uber rides compared with regular taxi service Cheaper if I wait. More expensive if I want immediacy. Either way, far more utilised than taxis in almost any city I visit.
    - rglullis 2y ago
      Thank you for spelling out my argument for me: regardless of situation, the cost of labor has nothing to do with it.
      - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
        > regardless of situation, the cost of labor has nothing to do with it Sort of. The cost of labor is the cost floor of the competition. So long as Waymo et al are smaller than the competition, i.e. so long as they don’t need to compete on price, they should tack under their direction. They aren’t setting the market price. The moment they need to compete, they can tank the price or increase service quality. (They could also stay put and milk it. But that invites new-entrant competition.) Internet companies compete on price out the gate because we have low marginal costs. A company like Waymo has hardware costs that make competing on price out the gate prohibitive. So in a sense, their costs don’t have to do with labour. But that’s sort of true for any automation tech.
        rglullis 2y ago
        > They could also stay put and milk it. But that invites new-entrant competition. And believing that this is likely to happen is the problem I have with the whole proposition. I don't see any real player with capital, data and tech know-how to get into this in a way to turn it into a proper competition.
        JumpCrisscross 2y ago
        You advocate blowing everything up because you don’t see a way to your favoured state?
        rglullis 2y ago
        I'm saying that we shouldn't be so enthusiastic about the idea of giving more power to one of the largest corporations in the world, and that the idea is only worth pursuing if we have better ways to put them under check. To call this "advocating for blowing everything up" is just weasel wording and really disgusting rhetoric.

Really the lack of stops and parking places is, and would be even worse for self driving vehicles deployed in numbers. Unless it's self driving motor bikes or such small personal transportation.

mulmen 2y ago

In my city the cost of labor is very much a limiting factor. Robot drivers will open up transit options that aren’t practical now.

rglullis 2y ago
How much are you willing to bet that the price of a Waymo ride will converge to be within 10% of the price of an Uber ride today? (Also, followup question: how are the prices of Uber rides compared with regular taxi service, now that Uber has stopped subsidizing most of their trips?)
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago
  > How much are you willing to bet that the price of a Waymo ride will converge to be within 10% of the price of an Uber ride today? It should! That’s the competition! Hell, I’ll pay a premium for a quieter, safer (and for now, due to novelty, more fun) ride. And if Waymo maintain a monopoly that will stay the case. Otherwise, the normal thing will happen. > how are the prices of Uber rides compared with regular taxi service Cheaper if I wait. More expensive if I want immediacy. Either way, far more utilised than taxis in almost any city I visit.
  - rglullis 2y ago
    Thank you for spelling out my argument for me: regardless of situation, the cost of labor has nothing to do with it.
    - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
      > regardless of situation, the cost of labor has nothing to do with it Sort of. The cost of labor is the cost floor of the competition. So long as Waymo et al are smaller than the competition, i.e. so long as they don’t need to compete on price, they should tack under their direction. They aren’t setting the market price. The moment they need to compete, they can tank the price or increase service quality. (They could also stay put and milk it. But that invites new-entrant competition.) Internet companies compete on price out the gate because we have low marginal costs. A company like Waymo has hardware costs that make competing on price out the gate prohibitive. So in a sense, their costs don’t have to do with labour. But that’s sort of true for any automation tech.
      - rglullis 2y ago
        > They could also stay put and milk it. But that invites new-entrant competition. And believing that this is likely to happen is the problem I have with the whole proposition. I don't see any real player with capital, data and tech know-how to get into this in a way to turn it into a proper competition.
        JumpCrisscross 2y ago
        You advocate blowing everything up because you don’t see a way to your favoured state?
        rglullis 2y ago
        I'm saying that we shouldn't be so enthusiastic about the idea of giving more power to one of the largest corporations in the world, and that the idea is only worth pursuing if we have better ways to put them under check. To call this "advocating for blowing everything up" is just weasel wording and really disgusting rhetoric.