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> limited amount of time in the day For trips shorter than 2 miles, I can bet you that it's faster for me to hop on my bike (or to find an electric scooter) an

> limited amount of time in the day For trips shorter than 2 miles, I can bet you that it's faster for me to hop on my bike (or to find an electric scooter) and get to my destination than it is to drive. And let's not even talk about the time to find parking.

mulmen 2y ago
The grocery store is 1.3 miles from here but it’s a 300’ climb and it’s 42f and raining right now. Even with my e-bike that’s not pleasant. On a conventional bike that’s unrealistic for all but the most hardcore cyclists. There’s a bus that serves that route but the stop is uncovered and service is unreliable because it’s immediately after a rest stop where the human drivers take care of their biological needs. A robo-bus would be more predictable and enable more frequent service.
- rglullis 2y ago
  > stop is uncovered and service is reliable And it doesn't even occur to you that the problem is the poor infrastructure? Do you honestly think that the optimal solution here is just to keep waiting for some trillion dollar corporation to be able to sell some new product that will bring you more "convenience" (at the cost of dependency and yet-more environmental costs related to cars and its required parking infrastructure) when you instead could be doing something like, I don't know, getting your city council to improve the fucking bus service?
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - mulmen 2y ago
    > And it doesn't even occur to you that the problem is the poor infrastructure? It has occurred to me. > Do you honestly think that the optimal solution here is just to keep waiting for some trillion dollar corporation to be able to sell some new product that will bring you more "convenience" Not sure where you got this idea. I’m not waiting for anything. I’m still excited for self driving vehicles to compliment the existing system. > at the cost of dependency and yet-more environmental costs related to cars and its required parking infrastructure Why would a self driving car need to park? The ability to always be in use is one of the advantages. As I said there’s no requirement that the self driving vehicle be a car form factor. A self-driving bus could improve access and reliability. > when you instead could be doing something like, I don't know, getting your city council to improve the fucking bus service? How? I choose to live in a city with good (for America) transit. I vote for every transit measure available to me. I ride the bus. I commute by bike when I can. I don’t own a car. What else should I do?
    - rglullis 2y ago
      > Why would a self driving car need to park? The ability to always be in use is one of the advantages. They are not going to be always in use. Unless you got a perfectly uniform distribution of demand over time, eventually most of these cars will have to be parked somewhere. And whey they do, let's hope they don't keep doing this: https://www.ctvnews.ca/video/c2977546-lot-full-of-self-driving-cars-honking-overnight https://www.ctvnews.ca/video/c2977546-lot-full-of-self-drivi...
      - creer 2y ago
        > And whey they do, let's hope they don't keep doing How does bringing this up help anything? It's a bug, bugs happen, bugs get fixed. Quickly when they are software bugs. As opposed to NIMBY mind bugs.
      - mulmen 2y ago
        Ok but they only need one parking space and even it can be time shared. They don’t need the same parking infrastructure we have now. Buses also need a place to park and get maintenance. Self-driving allows locating the parking in more distant locations.
        rglullis 2y ago
        > They don’t need the same parking infrastructure we have now. The existing parking infrastructure is not going away because of self-driving cars. The exact same argument could've been applied to the car sharing programs that already exist. People that own cars are not going to leave their cars for a robo-taxi, in the same way that they are not getting rid of their cars in favor of a ZipCar membership. > Buses also need a place to park and get maintenance Do you know that picture showing people standing on the street to show the density of the different methods of transportation? What do you think needs a larger parking footprint? I'd guess that even if autonomous cars got to a remarkable 10% idle rate, they would still require more space than buses. > Self-driving allows locating the parking in more distant locations. Guess what companies will do when they realize that their customers do not want to wait 10 minutes for their ride to come pick them up at home? That's right, they will get lots of parking spots close to the urban/suburban city centers.
- zahlman 2y ago
  >The grocery store is 1.3 miles from here but it’s a 300’ climb and it’s 42f and raining right now. I would get a jacket and umbrella and walk this without giving it a second thought.
  - mulmen 2y ago
    That’s 1.5 hours round trip by foot and 15 minutes by car/e-bike. And I have to carry my groceries so I’m limited on how much I can buy. If there was a robobus I would absolutely take that option.
    - zahlman 2y ago
      I routinely walk considerably further than that for groceries, in less time. On a route including a steep hill. Short trips made any way but walking have considerable overhead. Bad urban planning makes it worse. How many times do you have to stop a car on that route?
      - mulmen 2y ago
        > I routinely walk considerably further than that for groceries, in less time. On a route including a steep hill. Not everyone has or wants to spend that kind of time. Especially when it’s not necessary and the weather is bad. I’m hosting a party this evening so I need to run up there and get snacks and beer. The hour of time the e-bike saves lets me do that between work and guests arriving. I don’t have time to walk that distance and still eat dinner. > Short trips made any way but walking have considerable overhead. Bad urban planning makes it worse. How many times do you have to stop a car on that route? I don’t own a car. I ride my e-bike. There’s two lights and a stop sign on that route. It has a bike lane which is nice. Takes 10 minutes including time to put on my helmet and gloves and lock/unlock the bike. If we both left my couch at the same time I’d be home on my bike before you even arrived at the store on foot.

mulmen 2y ago

The grocery store is 1.3 miles from here but it’s a 300’ climb and it’s 42f and raining right now. Even with my e-bike that’s not pleasant. On a conventional bike that’s unrealistic for all but the most hardcore cyclists. There’s a bus that serves that route but the stop is uncovered and service is unreliable because it’s immediately after a rest stop where the human drivers take care of their biological needs. A robo-bus would be more predictable and enable more frequent service.

rglullis 2y ago
> stop is uncovered and service is reliable And it doesn't even occur to you that the problem is the poor infrastructure? Do you honestly think that the optimal solution here is just to keep waiting for some trillion dollar corporation to be able to sell some new product that will bring you more "convenience" (at the cost of dependency and yet-more environmental costs related to cars and its required parking infrastructure) when you instead could be doing something like, I don't know, getting your city council to improve the fucking bus service?
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- mulmen 2y ago
  > And it doesn't even occur to you that the problem is the poor infrastructure? It has occurred to me. > Do you honestly think that the optimal solution here is just to keep waiting for some trillion dollar corporation to be able to sell some new product that will bring you more "convenience" Not sure where you got this idea. I’m not waiting for anything. I’m still excited for self driving vehicles to compliment the existing system. > at the cost of dependency and yet-more environmental costs related to cars and its required parking infrastructure Why would a self driving car need to park? The ability to always be in use is one of the advantages. As I said there’s no requirement that the self driving vehicle be a car form factor. A self-driving bus could improve access and reliability. > when you instead could be doing something like, I don't know, getting your city council to improve the fucking bus service? How? I choose to live in a city with good (for America) transit. I vote for every transit measure available to me. I ride the bus. I commute by bike when I can. I don’t own a car. What else should I do?
  - rglullis 2y ago
    > Why would a self driving car need to park? The ability to always be in use is one of the advantages. They are not going to be always in use. Unless you got a perfectly uniform distribution of demand over time, eventually most of these cars will have to be parked somewhere. And whey they do, let's hope they don't keep doing this: https://www.ctvnews.ca/video/c2977546-lot-full-of-self-driving-cars-honking-overnight https://www.ctvnews.ca/video/c2977546-lot-full-of-self-drivi...
    - creer 2y ago
      > And whey they do, let's hope they don't keep doing How does bringing this up help anything? It's a bug, bugs happen, bugs get fixed. Quickly when they are software bugs. As opposed to NIMBY mind bugs.
    - mulmen 2y ago
      Ok but they only need one parking space and even it can be time shared. They don’t need the same parking infrastructure we have now. Buses also need a place to park and get maintenance. Self-driving allows locating the parking in more distant locations.
      - rglullis 2y ago
        > They don’t need the same parking infrastructure we have now. The existing parking infrastructure is not going away because of self-driving cars. The exact same argument could've been applied to the car sharing programs that already exist. People that own cars are not going to leave their cars for a robo-taxi, in the same way that they are not getting rid of their cars in favor of a ZipCar membership. > Buses also need a place to park and get maintenance Do you know that picture showing people standing on the street to show the density of the different methods of transportation? What do you think needs a larger parking footprint? I'd guess that even if autonomous cars got to a remarkable 10% idle rate, they would still require more space than buses. > Self-driving allows locating the parking in more distant locations. Guess what companies will do when they realize that their customers do not want to wait 10 minutes for their ride to come pick them up at home? That's right, they will get lots of parking spots close to the urban/suburban city centers.
zahlman 2y ago
>The grocery store is 1.3 miles from here but it’s a 300’ climb and it’s 42f and raining right now. I would get a jacket and umbrella and walk this without giving it a second thought.
- mulmen 2y ago
  That’s 1.5 hours round trip by foot and 15 minutes by car/e-bike. And I have to carry my groceries so I’m limited on how much I can buy. If there was a robobus I would absolutely take that option.
  - zahlman 2y ago
    I routinely walk considerably further than that for groceries, in less time. On a route including a steep hill. Short trips made any way but walking have considerable overhead. Bad urban planning makes it worse. How many times do you have to stop a car on that route?
    - mulmen 2y ago
      > I routinely walk considerably further than that for groceries, in less time. On a route including a steep hill. Not everyone has or wants to spend that kind of time. Especially when it’s not necessary and the weather is bad. I’m hosting a party this evening so I need to run up there and get snacks and beer. The hour of time the e-bike saves lets me do that between work and guests arriving. I don’t have time to walk that distance and still eat dinner. > Short trips made any way but walking have considerable overhead. Bad urban planning makes it worse. How many times do you have to stop a car on that route? I don’t own a car. I ride my e-bike. There’s two lights and a stop sign on that route. It has a bike lane which is nice. Takes 10 minutes including time to put on my helmet and gloves and lock/unlock the bike. If we both left my couch at the same time I’d be home on my bike before you even arrived at the store on foot.