4 ms·

If it succeeds, self-driving technology is likely to be integrated into public transit systems, enhancing their reliability and overall efficiency.

HPsquared 2y ago
With self-driving tech, buses could be made a lot smaller and more frequent. They are large and infrequent because of fixed per-vehicle costs (mostly the driver). EDIT: Small size then enables personalized routing: a multi-passenger taxi taking a set of people to similar destinations.
- jazzyjackson 2y ago
  That makes a lot of sense, I never thought of the labor as the limiting factor on bus route (clearly I just never thought very hard about it) but boy would it be nice if there was a 9 passenger van every 5 minutes to replace a full size bus every 30.
  - rglullis 2y ago
    Vans to complement buses are definitely a thing in São Paulo, and the cost of labor is not a limiting factor.
    - AstralStorm 2y ago
      Really the lack of stops and parking places is, and would be even worse for self driving vehicles deployed in numbers. Unless it's self driving motor bikes or such small personal transportation.
    - mulmen 2y ago
      In my city the cost of labor is very much a limiting factor. Robot drivers will open up transit options that aren’t practical now.
      - rglullis 2y ago
        How much are you willing to bet that the price of a Waymo ride will converge to be within 10% of the price of an Uber ride today? (Also, followup question: how are the prices of Uber rides compared with regular taxi service, now that Uber has stopped subsidizing most of their trips?)
        JumpCrisscross 2y ago
        > How much are you willing to bet that the price of a Waymo ride will converge to be within 10% of the price of an Uber ride today? It should! That’s the competition! Hell, I’ll pay a premium for a quieter, safer (and for now, due to novelty, more fun) ride. And if Waymo maintain a monopoly that will stay the case. Otherwise, the normal thing will happen. > how are the prices of Uber rides compared with regular taxi service Cheaper if I wait. More expensive if I want immediacy. Either way, far more utilised than taxis in almost any city I visit.
        rglullis 2y ago
        Thank you for spelling out my argument for me: regardless of situation, the cost of labor has nothing to do with it.
        JumpCrisscross 2y ago
        > regardless of situation, the cost of labor has nothing to do with it Sort of. The cost of labor is the cost floor of the competition. So long as Waymo et al are smaller than the competition, i.e. so long as they don’t need to compete on price, they should tack under their direction. They aren’t setting the market price. The moment they need to compete, they can tank the price or increase service quality. (They could also stay put and milk it. But that invites new-entrant competition.) Internet companies compete on price out the gate because we have low marginal costs. A company like Waymo has hardware costs that make competing on price out the gate prohibitive. So in a sense, their costs don’t have to do with labour. But that’s sort of true for any automation tech.

HPsquared 2y ago

With self-driving tech, buses could be made a lot smaller and more frequent. They are large and infrequent because of fixed per-vehicle costs (mostly the driver). EDIT: Small size then enables personalized routing: a multi-passenger taxi taking a set of people to similar destinations.

jazzyjackson 2y ago
That makes a lot of sense, I never thought of the labor as the limiting factor on bus route (clearly I just never thought very hard about it) but boy would it be nice if there was a 9 passenger van every 5 minutes to replace a full size bus every 30.
- rglullis 2y ago
  Vans to complement buses are definitely a thing in São Paulo, and the cost of labor is not a limiting factor.
  - AstralStorm 2y ago
    Really the lack of stops and parking places is, and would be even worse for self driving vehicles deployed in numbers. Unless it's self driving motor bikes or such small personal transportation.
  - mulmen 2y ago
    In my city the cost of labor is very much a limiting factor. Robot drivers will open up transit options that aren’t practical now.
    - rglullis 2y ago
      How much are you willing to bet that the price of a Waymo ride will converge to be within 10% of the price of an Uber ride today? (Also, followup question: how are the prices of Uber rides compared with regular taxi service, now that Uber has stopped subsidizing most of their trips?)
      - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
        > How much are you willing to bet that the price of a Waymo ride will converge to be within 10% of the price of an Uber ride today? It should! That’s the competition! Hell, I’ll pay a premium for a quieter, safer (and for now, due to novelty, more fun) ride. And if Waymo maintain a monopoly that will stay the case. Otherwise, the normal thing will happen. > how are the prices of Uber rides compared with regular taxi service Cheaper if I wait. More expensive if I want immediacy. Either way, far more utilised than taxis in almost any city I visit.
        rglullis 2y ago
        Thank you for spelling out my argument for me: regardless of situation, the cost of labor has nothing to do with it.
        JumpCrisscross 2y ago
        > regardless of situation, the cost of labor has nothing to do with it Sort of. The cost of labor is the cost floor of the competition. So long as Waymo et al are smaller than the competition, i.e. so long as they don’t need to compete on price, they should tack under their direction. They aren’t setting the market price. The moment they need to compete, they can tank the price or increase service quality. (They could also stay put and milk it. But that invites new-entrant competition.) Internet companies compete on price out the gate because we have low marginal costs. A company like Waymo has hardware costs that make competing on price out the gate prohibitive. So in a sense, their costs don’t have to do with labour. But that’s sort of true for any automation tech.