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Nobody says it has to be a car form factor. It can be a self driving van or shuttle or bus. Last mile is a nightmare with all public transit. With the low po

by mulmen 2y ago

Nobody says it has to be a car form factor. It can be a self driving van or shuttle or bus. Last mile is a nightmare with all public transit. With the low population density of the US we need a lot of small vehicles to feed transit hubs.

rglullis 2y ago
For "last mile", we already have bikes, scooters, skates, plain walking...
- jazzyjackson 2y ago
  Really fun stuff but most people have a limited amount of time in the day so if they can afford to take a car they're going to take a car.
  - rglullis 2y ago
    > limited amount of time in the day For trips shorter than 2 miles, I can bet you that it's faster for me to hop on my bike (or to find an electric scooter) and get to my destination than it is to drive. And let's not even talk about the time to find parking.
    - mulmen 2y ago
      The grocery store is 1.3 miles from here but it’s a 300’ climb and it’s 42f and raining right now. Even with my e-bike that’s not pleasant. On a conventional bike that’s unrealistic for all but the most hardcore cyclists. There’s a bus that serves that route but the stop is uncovered and service is unreliable because it’s immediately after a rest stop where the human drivers take care of their biological needs. A robo-bus would be more predictable and enable more frequent service.
      - rglullis 2y ago
        > stop is uncovered and service is reliable And it doesn't even occur to you that the problem is the poor infrastructure? Do you honestly think that the optimal solution here is just to keep waiting for some trillion dollar corporation to be able to sell some new product that will bring you more "convenience" (at the cost of dependency and yet-more environmental costs related to cars and its required parking infrastructure) when you instead could be doing something like, I don't know, getting your city council to improve the fucking bus service?
        deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
        mulmen 2y ago
        > And it doesn't even occur to you that the problem is the poor infrastructure? It has occurred to me. > Do you honestly think that the optimal solution here is just to keep waiting for some trillion dollar corporation to be able to sell some new product that will bring you more "convenience" Not sure where you got this idea. I’m not waiting for anything. I’m still excited for self driving vehicles to compliment the existing system. > at the cost of dependency and yet-more environmental costs related to cars and its required parking infrastructure Why would a self driving car need to park? The ability to always be in use is one of the advantages. As I said there’s no requirement that the self driving vehicle be a car form factor. A self-driving bus could improve access and reliability. > when you instead could be doing something like, I don't know, getting your city council to improve the fucking bus service? How? I choose to live in a city with good (for America) transit. I vote for every transit measure available to me. I ride the bus. I commute by bike when I can. I don’t own a car. What else should I do?
        rglullis 2y ago
        > Why would a self driving car need to park? The ability to always be in use is one of the advantages. They are not going to be always in use. Unless you got a perfectly uniform distribution of demand over time, eventually most of these cars will have to be parked somewhere. And whey they do, let's hope they don't keep doing this: https://www.ctvnews.ca/video/c2977546-lot-full-of-self-driving-cars-honking-overnight https://www.ctvnews.ca/video/c2977546-lot-full-of-self-drivi...
rsynnott 2y ago
> Last mile is a nightmare with all public transit. In rural areas, sure. In urban and dense suburban areas, in most developed countries there's probably a bus stop within easy walking distance.
- mulmen 2y ago
  Yes, the last mile is walked. That’s the problem. It’s not practical to put a train station or bus stop at every corner. This is why cars exist everywhere. If those cars can be automated they can be shared even more efficiently than Ubers and allow more efficient bus and train routes.
  - rsynnott 2y ago
    > It’s not practical to put a train station or bus stop at every corner. Tell that to Dublin Bus. Some routes are more or less unusable due to ridiculously high numbers of stops; there’s one in particular near me which has 37 stops over about 4km. There are large parts of the suburbs here where you’re never more than a couple hundred meters from a bus stop. The last mile is, for much of the city, just not a problem, though when taken to extremes it does make the routes very slow.
    - mulmen 2y ago
      > Tell that to Dublin Bus. Some routes are more or less unusable due to ridiculously high numbers of stops; there’s one in particular near me which has 37 stops over about 4km. Sounds impractical. > There are large parts of the suburbs here where you’re never more than a couple hundred meters from a bus stop. The last mile is, for much of the city, just not a problem, though when taken to extremes it does make the routes very slow. We have a solution to this. It’s called a taxi.
creer 2y ago
That would be a more reasonable trajectory for US cities: more frequent, faster main line transit plus a flood of local inexpensive automated electric vehicles. That would be compatible with the current low density.

by mulmen 2y ago

rglullis 2y ago

For "last mile", we already have bikes, scooters, skates, plain walking...

jazzyjackson 2y ago
Really fun stuff but most people have a limited amount of time in the day so if they can afford to take a car they're going to take a car.
- rglullis 2y ago
  > limited amount of time in the day For trips shorter than 2 miles, I can bet you that it's faster for me to hop on my bike (or to find an electric scooter) and get to my destination than it is to drive. And let's not even talk about the time to find parking.
  - mulmen 2y ago
    The grocery store is 1.3 miles from here but it’s a 300’ climb and it’s 42f and raining right now. Even with my e-bike that’s not pleasant. On a conventional bike that’s unrealistic for all but the most hardcore cyclists. There’s a bus that serves that route but the stop is uncovered and service is unreliable because it’s immediately after a rest stop where the human drivers take care of their biological needs. A robo-bus would be more predictable and enable more frequent service.
    - rglullis 2y ago
      > stop is uncovered and service is reliable And it doesn't even occur to you that the problem is the poor infrastructure? Do you honestly think that the optimal solution here is just to keep waiting for some trillion dollar corporation to be able to sell some new product that will bring you more "convenience" (at the cost of dependency and yet-more environmental costs related to cars and its required parking infrastructure) when you instead could be doing something like, I don't know, getting your city council to improve the fucking bus service?
      - deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
      - mulmen 2y ago
        > And it doesn't even occur to you that the problem is the poor infrastructure? It has occurred to me. > Do you honestly think that the optimal solution here is just to keep waiting for some trillion dollar corporation to be able to sell some new product that will bring you more "convenience" Not sure where you got this idea. I’m not waiting for anything. I’m still excited for self driving vehicles to compliment the existing system. > at the cost of dependency and yet-more environmental costs related to cars and its required parking infrastructure Why would a self driving car need to park? The ability to always be in use is one of the advantages. As I said there’s no requirement that the self driving vehicle be a car form factor. A self-driving bus could improve access and reliability. > when you instead could be doing something like, I don't know, getting your city council to improve the fucking bus service? How? I choose to live in a city with good (for America) transit. I vote for every transit measure available to me. I ride the bus. I commute by bike when I can. I don’t own a car. What else should I do?
        rglullis 2y ago
        > Why would a self driving car need to park? The ability to always be in use is one of the advantages. They are not going to be always in use. Unless you got a perfectly uniform distribution of demand over time, eventually most of these cars will have to be parked somewhere. And whey they do, let's hope they don't keep doing this: https://www.ctvnews.ca/video/c2977546-lot-full-of-self-driving-cars-honking-overnight https://www.ctvnews.ca/video/c2977546-lot-full-of-self-drivi...

rsynnott 2y ago

> Last mile is a nightmare with all public transit. In rural areas, sure. In urban and dense suburban areas, in most developed countries there's probably a bus stop within easy walking distance.

mulmen 2y ago
Yes, the last mile is walked. That’s the problem. It’s not practical to put a train station or bus stop at every corner. This is why cars exist everywhere. If those cars can be automated they can be shared even more efficiently than Ubers and allow more efficient bus and train routes.
- rsynnott 2y ago
  > It’s not practical to put a train station or bus stop at every corner. Tell that to Dublin Bus. Some routes are more or less unusable due to ridiculously high numbers of stops; there’s one in particular near me which has 37 stops over about 4km. There are large parts of the suburbs here where you’re never more than a couple hundred meters from a bus stop. The last mile is, for much of the city, just not a problem, though when taken to extremes it does make the routes very slow.
  - mulmen 2y ago
    > Tell that to Dublin Bus. Some routes are more or less unusable due to ridiculously high numbers of stops; there’s one in particular near me which has 37 stops over about 4km. Sounds impractical. > There are large parts of the suburbs here where you’re never more than a couple hundred meters from a bus stop. The last mile is, for much of the city, just not a problem, though when taken to extremes it does make the routes very slow. We have a solution to this. It’s called a taxi.

creer 2y ago

That would be a more reasonable trajectory for US cities: more frequent, faster main line transit plus a flood of local inexpensive automated electric vehicles. That would be compatible with the current low density.