3 ms·

Do you mean the move away from YAML first configs? I was originally somewhat frustrated, but overall, it's much better (let's be honest, YAML sucks) and more u

by sofixa 2y ago

Do you mean the move away from YAML first configs? I was originally somewhat frustrated, but overall, it's much better (let's be honest, YAML sucks) and more user friendly (by that I mean having a form with pre-filled fields is easier than having to copy paste YAML).

philjohn 2y ago
It's worse though when you need to add a ton of custom sensors at once, e.g., for properly automating a Solar PV + Battery solution.
- ncallaway 2y ago
  But like, isn't YAML still available for configuring things? Have they gotten rid of any YAML configs, with things that are now UI only? My understanding was that they've just been building more UI for configuring things and so now default recommend people away from YAML (which seems like the right choice to me).
  - sofixa 2y ago
    > But like, isn't YAML still available for configuring things? For most, yes. But for some included integrations it's UI-only (all of those I've had to migrate, it's been a single click + comment out lines, and the config has been a breeze (stuff like just an api key/IP address + 1-2 optional params).
    - lolinder 2y ago
      Where and how are those configs stored? There has to be a backing representation somewhere, right?
      - sofixa 2y ago
        In the Home assistant database (which is SQLite IIRC).
        iamjackg 2y ago
        UI-generated configs are not stored in the database, they end up in a collection of JSON files in a .storage directory inside your config directory.
        lokar 2y ago
        And there is no real API for you to interact with it. I would build my own config system if I could, but they don’t seem interested.
        lolinder 2y ago
        SQLite is highly automatable if you can deal with downtime to do your migrations. I'm sure there are things they could do to better support the power-user engineer use case, but at the end of the day it's a self-hosted web app written in Python that has strong support for plugins. There should be very few things that an engineer couldn't figure out how to do between writing a plugin, tweaking source code, and just modifying files in place. And in the meantime I'm glad that it exists and apparently has enough traction to pay for itself.
  - ramses0 2y ago
    For "integrated" stuff, their stance is "UI Must Work". Tracing down the requirements, here: https://design.home-assistant.io/#concepts/home https://developers.home-assistant.io/docs/configuration_yaml_index https://github.com/home-assistant/architecture/blob/master/adr/0010-integration-configuration.md ...usually there's YAML kicking around the backend, but for normal usage, normal users, the goal is to be able to configure all (most) things via UI. I've had to drop to YAML to configure (eg) writing stats to indexdb/graphana vs. sqlite (or something), or maybe to drop in or update an API_KEY or non-standard host/port, but 99% of the time the config is baroque, but usable via the web-app.
  - philjohn 2y ago
    Yes - for now. I think the ultimate end-goal is to get rid of the YAML config files, which, makes sense for the median user, but not for power users. For example, I have my config on GitHub and share various YAML blueprints with a friend who also has the same Solar+Battery system as I do.
    - jevogel 2y ago
      Why do you think they would get rid of YAML files? Is that on the roadmap?
lokar 2y ago
Yes, config is a major part of it. But also a lack of good APIs, very poor dev documentation, not great logging. A general “take it or leave it” attitude, not interesting in enabling engineers to build.
- thumbsup-_- 2y ago
  I don’t think that’s true. Their docs are great and the community is active and responsive in forums and github
cryptoegorophy 2y ago
Oh thank got. Just started using HA few months ago and all these yaml is so confusing when I try to code it with ChatGPT , constant syntax or some other random errors.
- jillyboel 2y ago
  > when I try to code it with ChatGPT so don't do that... just rtfm and it's easy

by sofixa 2y ago

philjohn 2y ago

It's worse though when you need to add a ton of custom sensors at once, e.g., for properly automating a Solar PV + Battery solution.

ncallaway 2y ago
But like, isn't YAML still available for configuring things? Have they gotten rid of any YAML configs, with things that are now UI only? My understanding was that they've just been building more UI for configuring things and so now default recommend people away from YAML (which seems like the right choice to me).
- sofixa 2y ago
  > But like, isn't YAML still available for configuring things? For most, yes. But for some included integrations it's UI-only (all of those I've had to migrate, it's been a single click + comment out lines, and the config has been a breeze (stuff like just an api key/IP address + 1-2 optional params).
  - lolinder 2y ago
    Where and how are those configs stored? There has to be a backing representation somewhere, right?
    - sofixa 2y ago
      In the Home assistant database (which is SQLite IIRC).
      - iamjackg 2y ago
        UI-generated configs are not stored in the database, they end up in a collection of JSON files in a .storage directory inside your config directory.
      - lokar 2y ago
        And there is no real API for you to interact with it. I would build my own config system if I could, but they don’t seem interested.
        lolinder 2y ago
        SQLite is highly automatable if you can deal with downtime to do your migrations. I'm sure there are things they could do to better support the power-user engineer use case, but at the end of the day it's a self-hosted web app written in Python that has strong support for plugins. There should be very few things that an engineer couldn't figure out how to do between writing a plugin, tweaking source code, and just modifying files in place. And in the meantime I'm glad that it exists and apparently has enough traction to pay for itself.
- ramses0 2y ago
  For "integrated" stuff, their stance is "UI Must Work". Tracing down the requirements, here: https://design.home-assistant.io/#concepts/home https://developers.home-assistant.io/docs/configuration_yaml_index https://github.com/home-assistant/architecture/blob/master/adr/0010-integration-configuration.md ...usually there's YAML kicking around the backend, but for normal usage, normal users, the goal is to be able to configure all (most) things via UI. I've had to drop to YAML to configure (eg) writing stats to indexdb/graphana vs. sqlite (or something), or maybe to drop in or update an API_KEY or non-standard host/port, but 99% of the time the config is baroque, but usable via the web-app.
- philjohn 2y ago
  Yes - for now. I think the ultimate end-goal is to get rid of the YAML config files, which, makes sense for the median user, but not for power users. For example, I have my config on GitHub and share various YAML blueprints with a friend who also has the same Solar+Battery system as I do.
  - jevogel 2y ago
    Why do you think they would get rid of YAML files? Is that on the roadmap?

lokar 2y ago

Yes, config is a major part of it. But also a lack of good APIs, very poor dev documentation, not great logging. A general “take it or leave it” attitude, not interesting in enabling engineers to build.

thumbsup-_- 2y ago
I don’t think that’s true. Their docs are great and the community is active and responsive in forums and github

cryptoegorophy 2y ago

Oh thank got. Just started using HA few months ago and all these yaml is so confusing when I try to code it with ChatGPT , constant syntax or some other random errors.

jillyboel 2y ago
> when I try to code it with ChatGPT so don't do that... just rtfm and it's easy