7 ms·

The characterization of Murray's views seem extremely accurate and the fact that his book is still brought up despite being disproved as racist trash decades ag

by rat87 2y ago

The characterization of Murray's views seem extremely accurate and the fact that his book is still brought up despite being disproved as racist trash decades ago is ridiculous

gotoeleven 2y ago
[flagged]
- BriggyDwiggs42 2y ago
  That book was not very good science or science interpretation and didn’t do a great job of proving that meaningful race-iq differences exist. I also don’t know where the disaster is, could you elucidate some of the cataclysmic results of DEI?
  - gotoeleven 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - BriggyDwiggs42 2y ago
      I’ve seen and read extensive reviews, but yeah I have not read it. I agree that’s a blind spot, so I’ll go ahead and read the book then get back to you after. Give me like a week.
      - peterfirefly 2y ago
        [flagged]
        ConspiracyFact 2y ago
        >lots of places have high-IQ subpopulations who look a lot like their background populations Can you rephrase this?
        peterfirefly 2y ago
        [flagged]
        tptacek 2y ago
        It is wildly untrue that these bullets are all broadly accepted in the actual literature or among modern practitioners. This is more like a list of things you happen to believe. Which is fine, but be clearer about it.
        peterfirefly 2y ago
        [flagged]
        tptacek 2y ago
        No, I don't think psychometrics and heritability research is like stereotype threat or "sky fathers", whatever that is. But I think we're clearer at this point where that list came from, and probably don't need to take this further.
        peterfirefly 2y ago
        Will you at least retract "wildly untrue"?
        tptacek 2y ago
        No? You provided a list of things you personally believe to be supported by the balance of evidence (in several different fields of study), and many of them --- maybe more than half --- are things that are unsettled, or even unlikely to be true. Why would I retract anything?
        peterfirefly 2y ago
        Half? Seriously? I could understand believing a handful of them are "unsettled, or even unlikely to be true" given the current debate climate. Honest question, no attempt at rhetorical jiu-jitsu or anything -- why do you believe "maybe more than half"? You must base that estimate on something.
    - rat87 2y ago
      Differences in IQ currently exist, they're not based on racial genetics. The Bell Curve isn't about organizing society fairly it's about justifying what is clearly an unfair and unjust society as natural and impossible to improve and therefore good https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/3/27/15695060/sam-harris-charles-murray-race-iq-forbidden-knowledge-podcast-bell-curve https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/3/27/15695060/s... https://www.vox.com/2018/4/10/17182692/bell-curve-charles-murray-policy-wrong https://www.vox.com/2018/4/10/17182692/bell-curve-charles-mu...
- ConspiracyFact 2y ago
  >How does it help anyone to pretend that group differences don’t exist? It helps people get along.

by rat87 2y ago

The characterization of Murray's views seem extremely accurate and the fact that his book is still brought up despite being disproved as racist trash decades ago is ridiculous

gotoeleven 2y ago

[flagged]

BriggyDwiggs42 2y ago
That book was not very good science or science interpretation and didn’t do a great job of proving that meaningful race-iq differences exist. I also don’t know where the disaster is, could you elucidate some of the cataclysmic results of DEI?
- gotoeleven 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - BriggyDwiggs42 2y ago
    I’ve seen and read extensive reviews, but yeah I have not read it. I agree that’s a blind spot, so I’ll go ahead and read the book then get back to you after. Give me like a week.
    - peterfirefly 2y ago
      [flagged]
      - ConspiracyFact 2y ago
        >lots of places have high-IQ subpopulations who look a lot like their background populations Can you rephrase this?
        peterfirefly 2y ago
        [flagged]
      - tptacek 2y ago
        It is wildly untrue that these bullets are all broadly accepted in the actual literature or among modern practitioners. This is more like a list of things you happen to believe. Which is fine, but be clearer about it.
        peterfirefly 2y ago
        [flagged]
        tptacek 2y ago
        No, I don't think psychometrics and heritability research is like stereotype threat or "sky fathers", whatever that is. But I think we're clearer at this point where that list came from, and probably don't need to take this further.
        peterfirefly 2y ago
        Will you at least retract "wildly untrue"?
        tptacek 2y ago
        No? You provided a list of things you personally believe to be supported by the balance of evidence (in several different fields of study), and many of them --- maybe more than half --- are things that are unsettled, or even unlikely to be true. Why would I retract anything?
        peterfirefly 2y ago
        Half? Seriously? I could understand believing a handful of them are "unsettled, or even unlikely to be true" given the current debate climate. Honest question, no attempt at rhetorical jiu-jitsu or anything -- why do you believe "maybe more than half"? You must base that estimate on something.
  - rat87 2y ago
    Differences in IQ currently exist, they're not based on racial genetics. The Bell Curve isn't about organizing society fairly it's about justifying what is clearly an unfair and unjust society as natural and impossible to improve and therefore good https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/3/27/15695060/sam-harris-charles-murray-race-iq-forbidden-knowledge-podcast-bell-curve https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/3/27/15695060/s... https://www.vox.com/2018/4/10/17182692/bell-curve-charles-murray-policy-wrong https://www.vox.com/2018/4/10/17182692/bell-curve-charles-mu...
ConspiracyFact 2y ago
>How does it help anyone to pretend that group differences don’t exist? It helps people get along.