3 ms·

Tesla sales in Europe are down 14% year-to-date and it's time to worry

12 points by mfiguiere 2y ago

gnabgib 2y ago
Some discussion already (10 points, 6 hours ago, 4 comments) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42461436 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42461436
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
quantified 2y ago
Meh. According to that chart it's just one of many. Volkswagen shipped rougly 10x Tesla in 2023, and many other manufacturers ship into that market too. A Tesla problem is not a cause for worry except for shareholders, and it's had an insane p/e ratio for a long time.
- beardyw 2y ago
  Who, other than shareholders, or perhaps employees, would worry?
uberman 2y ago
Tesla has a Musk problem in my opinion. Before you reflexively downvote because you love Musk, here is polling from Gallup. EV potential purchasing by political affiliation: * Republican: 71% would not buy * Independent: 38% would not buy * Democrat: 17% would not buy The overwhelming result is that democrats are way more likely to own or be considering an EV than independents who are themselves overwhelming more likely to than republicans. See: https://news.gallup.com/poll/474095/americans-not-completely-sold-electric-vehicles.aspx#:~:text=not%20buy%20one.-,The%20data%20is%20from%20Gallup's%20March%201-23%2C%202023%20poll,or%20are%20seriously%20considering%20it https://news.gallup.com/poll/474095/americans-not-completely.... Note these results are from last year, prior to Musk spending $250 million dollars to elect a lightning rod republican. I don't want to make this a "political" issue, but the fact of the matter is Musk very publicly spent a quarter of a billion dollars against the interests of his core market. Hell, there are people who know Tesla is a superior product and will now not purchase one essentially against their own interests because of him. * https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2024/nov/29/tesla-owners-elon-musk https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2024/nov/29/tesla-own... * https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2024/08/24/is-elon-musk-driving-away-teslas-core-customers/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2024/08/24/is-elon-... * https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/would-be-tesla-buyers-snub-company-musks-reputation-dips-2024-04-01/ https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/would-... Perhaps Musk feels like so publicly aligning himself with a customer base that has not been traditionally receptive will lead to sales growth, but I am skeptical. Perhaps he sees a first mover advantage to discontinued subsidies but again I am skeptical. Democrats who love the idea of purchasing an EV and can afford to do so without the subsidy will buy from Hyundai, Ford, GM, VW or Toyota, those who can't will simply buy a gas powered car.
- peutetre 2y ago
  > Perhaps Musk feels like It's more simple. Musk is an authoritarian by nature and he's reveling in being an oligarch.
- iknowstuff 2y ago
  The US isn’t even their largest market FYI. China is. https://canalys-prod-public.s3.eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/cosi/campaign/3770/_37i4bj0qx~l2Ik7VGgBf_cubNBC66p4.png https://canalys-prod-public.s3.eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/cosi/...
Zigurd 2y ago
Is it just Tesla, or mostly Tesla? "If you remove Tesla from the equation, BEV sales are actually up 1.3%." That's not exactly strong growth, but it means alternatives to Tesla have caught up.
rsynnott 2y ago
The real surprise here: Hyundai is _down_? Really? Every second 2024 electric car I see seems to be an Ioniq of some sort. (The other surprise for me is that Cupra is doing so well; they have one car, which is “what if an id.3, but make it weirder”. Apparently there is a market for that.) It’ll be interesting to see what this is like next year; there are a bunch of cars in the 20-30k range coming out now.
- peutetre 2y ago
  > The other surprise for me is that Cupra is doing so well; they have one car, Two EVs now. The Cupra Born: https://www.cupraofficial.co.uk/new-cars/born https://www.cupraofficial.co.uk/new-cars/born And the Cupra Tavascan: https://www.cupraofficial.co.uk/new-cars/tavascan https://www.cupraofficial.co.uk/new-cars/tavascan Review: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oe4H4wVT2gs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oe4H4wVT2gs
  - rsynnott 2y ago
    Oh, huh, missed that one. I see VW AG is backing off _slightly_ on their war on buttons, anyway, though it still looks very touchscreen-y.
nojvek 2y ago
Meanwhile Tesla with PE ratio of 121 and declining sales. It’s a good time to short meme stock.
- Zigurd 2y ago
  Galbraith's advice: "the market can stay irrational longer than you can stay solvent." Still, I'm really looking forward to the next earnings call. What's the future now? The lame robot?
- iknowstuff 2y ago
  Its on the promise of dominating the markets currently owned by uber/lyft/doordash/grubhub/bolt/didi. Not the car market.

12 points by mfiguiere 2y ago

Some discussion already (10 points, 6 hours ago, 4 comments) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42461436 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42461436

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

quantified 2y ago

Meh. According to that chart it's just one of many. Volkswagen shipped rougly 10x Tesla in 2023, and many other manufacturers ship into that market too. A Tesla problem is not a cause for worry except for shareholders, and it's had an insane p/e ratio for a long time.

beardyw 2y ago
Who, other than shareholders, or perhaps employees, would worry?

uberman 2y ago

Tesla has a Musk problem in my opinion. Before you reflexively downvote because you love Musk, here is polling from Gallup. EV potential purchasing by political affiliation: * Republican: 71% would not buy * Independent: 38% would not buy * Democrat: 17% would not buy The overwhelming result is that democrats are way more likely to own or be considering an EV than independents who are themselves overwhelming more likely to than republicans. See: https://news.gallup.com/poll/474095/americans-not-completely-sold-electric-vehicles.aspx#:~:text=not%20buy%20one.-,The%20data%20is%20from%20Gallup's%20March%201-23%2C%202023%20poll,or%20are%20seriously%20considering%20it https://news.gallup.com/poll/474095/americans-not-completely.... Note these results are from last year, prior to Musk spending $250 million dollars to elect a lightning rod republican. I don't want to make this a "political" issue, but the fact of the matter is Musk very publicly spent a quarter of a billion dollars against the interests of his core market. Hell, there are people who know Tesla is a superior product and will now not purchase one essentially against their own interests because of him. * https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2024/nov/29/tesla-owners-elon-musk https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2024/nov/29/tesla-own... * https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2024/08/24/is-elon-musk-driving-away-teslas-core-customers/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2024/08/24/is-elon-... * https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/would-be-tesla-buyers-snub-company-musks-reputation-dips-2024-04-01/ https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/would-... Perhaps Musk feels like so publicly aligning himself with a customer base that has not been traditionally receptive will lead to sales growth, but I am skeptical. Perhaps he sees a first mover advantage to discontinued subsidies but again I am skeptical. Democrats who love the idea of purchasing an EV and can afford to do so without the subsidy will buy from Hyundai, Ford, GM, VW or Toyota, those who can't will simply buy a gas powered car.

peutetre 2y ago
> Perhaps Musk feels like It's more simple. Musk is an authoritarian by nature and he's reveling in being an oligarch.
iknowstuff 2y ago
The US isn’t even their largest market FYI. China is. https://canalys-prod-public.s3.eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/cosi/campaign/3770/_37i4bj0qx~l2Ik7VGgBf_cubNBC66p4.png https://canalys-prod-public.s3.eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/cosi/...

Zigurd 2y ago

Is it just Tesla, or mostly Tesla? "If you remove Tesla from the equation, BEV sales are actually up 1.3%." That's not exactly strong growth, but it means alternatives to Tesla have caught up.

rsynnott 2y ago

The real surprise here: Hyundai is _down_? Really? Every second 2024 electric car I see seems to be an Ioniq of some sort. (The other surprise for me is that Cupra is doing so well; they have one car, which is “what if an id.3, but make it weirder”. Apparently there is a market for that.) It’ll be interesting to see what this is like next year; there are a bunch of cars in the 20-30k range coming out now.

peutetre 2y ago
> The other surprise for me is that Cupra is doing so well; they have one car, Two EVs now. The Cupra Born: https://www.cupraofficial.co.uk/new-cars/born https://www.cupraofficial.co.uk/new-cars/born And the Cupra Tavascan: https://www.cupraofficial.co.uk/new-cars/tavascan https://www.cupraofficial.co.uk/new-cars/tavascan Review: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oe4H4wVT2gs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oe4H4wVT2gs
- rsynnott 2y ago
  Oh, huh, missed that one. I see VW AG is backing off _slightly_ on their war on buttons, anyway, though it still looks very touchscreen-y.

nojvek 2y ago

Meanwhile Tesla with PE ratio of 121 and declining sales. It’s a good time to short meme stock.

Zigurd 2y ago
Galbraith's advice: "the market can stay irrational longer than you can stay solvent." Still, I'm really looking forward to the next earnings call. What's the future now? The lame robot?
iknowstuff 2y ago
Its on the promise of dominating the markets currently owned by uber/lyft/doordash/grubhub/bolt/didi. Not the car market.