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There is also a tradeoff between ductility and hardness where going too far in the hardness direction results in a knife that chips easily and is really hard to

There is also a tradeoff between ductility and hardness where going too far in the hardness direction results in a knife that chips easily and is really hard to sharpen. Softer German style steels are in a sweet spot for me in that regard, even though they require more frequent sharpening.

jazzyjackson 2y ago
I was disappointed to find I had chipped my expensive Global chefs knife without having tried anything out of the ordinary like bones or nuts (side note, ceramic knives are not the tool for slicing pecans!)
adrian_b 2y ago
The very purpose of the powdered steel mentioned by the previous poster is to improve this tradeoff between ductility and hardness. The simplest carbon steels can be made very hard with an appropriate heat treatment, if they have high carbon content, but then, as you say, they chip too easily. The various kinds of alloyed steels that can be used instead of carbon steel attempt to improve the tradeoff between ductility and hardness, so that one may choose a heat treatment that results in greater hardness without making the blade as fragile as a blade made of carbon steel with the same hardness. The alloyed steels made using powder metallurgy are said to achieve the best tradeoff between hardness and ductility, but I have not tested this yet, because they are also the most expensive. In the past I have used softer German style steels, but I do not like having to sharpen them, so now I prefer to use only harder and sharper Japanese knives, which must be sharpened much less frequently.
TheCondor 2y ago
Do you have a sharpening system you recommend?
- foobarian 2y ago
  Unfortunately nothing fancy, I have been doing it manually on a large (10") two-sided sharpening stone. More gear-oriented friends swear by products such as e.g. what's available here https://wickededgeusa.com/ https://wickededgeusa.com/
- BanazirGalbasi 2y ago
  On the cheaper side, Lansky makes a good jig and set of stones that's good for setting angles, and getting razor edges if you already have the angle set. [1] Worksharp makes a similar kit that's more stationary, with several versions at different costs [2] For a little more, and a little more freehand style, you can try Spyderco's Sharpmaker [3]. My dad has one of these, and growing up he would sharpen kitchen and pocket knives to a razor edge very quickly with it. I personally freehand sharpen my knives using Shapton stones [4]. I have the Kurumaku at 320, 1000, 2000, 5000, and 8000 grits, although the higher grits don't get used often; usually the 1000 grit alone is enough for getting a razor edge fairly quickly. I got mine from Amazon, but you can find them various places for $30-50 each. [1] https://www.lansky.com/deluxe-5-stone-system.html https://www.lansky.com/deluxe-5-stone-system.html [2] https://www.worksharptools.com/products/precision-adjust-knife-sharpener https://www.worksharptools.com/products/precision-adjust-kni... [3] https://www.spyderco.com/catalog/details.php?product=77 https://www.spyderco.com/catalog/details.php?product=77 [4] https://shapton.co.jp/en/#products https://shapton.co.jp/en/#products
- vl 2y ago
  Depends on level of commitment and results you need. To do it once and for all buy belt sharpener - Work Sharp with Blade Grinder Attachment being probably the best price vs quality vs functionality. For quality sharpening that requires a bit of time buy rolling knife sharpener. For quality sharpening which is fast and anyone can do buy electrical ChefMate with two slots and follow the instructions. PS Do not bother with anything that requires clamping the knife, etc. You’ll use it once - it’s just too much hustle to setup and adjust these systems. You spend most of the time unpacking, bolting it together and then readjusting the knife instead of sharpening. This is why rolling sharpeners work really well - fast magnetic attachment, angles are pre-set.
- antoviaque 2y ago
  The bottom of a ceramic mug works wonders.
- hansvm 2y ago
  If you're just doing normal stuff in the kitchen, the cheapest 400-grit diamond stone/plate bigger than a few inches you can find on Amazon is good enough. Once you can get a knife sharp with that it'll only take seconds to get it ready for normal use. The next step would probably be some kind of a strop/compound for removing the bur and polishing the edge. Doing so will improve edge retention substantially. After that, it's like anything; you can get as far as you'd like into the hobby; but you'll already be able to slice off translucent tomato windows without squishing anything, so it starts mattering less for normal use, especially with the battering a knife can take in the kitchen.
- klausa 2y ago
  Honestly — if you live in a big enough city where that's an option? Have a big enough collection of knives that you can take two out at a time, and bring them to a local, reputable sharpener (most shops that sell fancy/expensive/actual chef's knives will do this.). If you want to get into sharpening as a hobby, then getting a couple of whetstones is probably the easiest recommendation; but I just never got good enough at it and the process never got fun. I get the feeling that it becomes another aspect of a hobby for some; but I already make espresso at home, I have enough fiddly and frustrating kitchen hobbies.
- jaredhallen 2y ago
  This: https://www.amazon.com/Razor-Sharp-Edgemaking-System-Kit/dp/B0002IXQD8/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.gQ7V33-zJqyRbXZ1TZBlY92uzP8j_WjK9TxllRcap9SroKgECUhL4T6oO3_CAPC0cdfvZwbRMp8igRjH20wWYzViArTImXsHlnnspMmdjINNRA01yiXw4JCEAWnaAegs3SZDkPBVrLszncgBNkVWxwf5f60N4pZCFyyLjuRD_qSaNBfyN8tqJWmeelr3BBj_1yesrDAiOwPTLGcPnyNRug.neFRGM_Eu3E-HWg8gk8yQgNqwqEivu6GWM3wbcFbA8M&dib_tag=se&keywords=Paper+Sharpening+Wheels&qid=1734733043&sr=8-1 https://www.amazon.com/Razor-Sharp-Edgemaking-System-Kit/dp/...
krunck 2y ago
I've got a Japanese stainless steel Damascus kitchen knife. Sharp as hell. But you need to change your cutting technique because the edge is more brittle than the mushy steel knives we all know. That's not to say that mushy steel knives don't have a place in the kitchen. Always use the right tool for the job.

jazzyjackson 2y ago

I was disappointed to find I had chipped my expensive Global chefs knife without having tried anything out of the ordinary like bones or nuts (side note, ceramic knives are not the tool for slicing pecans!)

adrian_b 2y ago

The very purpose of the powdered steel mentioned by the previous poster is to improve this tradeoff between ductility and hardness. The simplest carbon steels can be made very hard with an appropriate heat treatment, if they have high carbon content, but then, as you say, they chip too easily. The various kinds of alloyed steels that can be used instead of carbon steel attempt to improve the tradeoff between ductility and hardness, so that one may choose a heat treatment that results in greater hardness without making the blade as fragile as a blade made of carbon steel with the same hardness. The alloyed steels made using powder metallurgy are said to achieve the best tradeoff between hardness and ductility, but I have not tested this yet, because they are also the most expensive. In the past I have used softer German style steels, but I do not like having to sharpen them, so now I prefer to use only harder and sharper Japanese knives, which must be sharpened much less frequently.

TheCondor 2y ago

Do you have a sharpening system you recommend?

foobarian 2y ago
Unfortunately nothing fancy, I have been doing it manually on a large (10") two-sided sharpening stone. More gear-oriented friends swear by products such as e.g. what's available here https://wickededgeusa.com/ https://wickededgeusa.com/
BanazirGalbasi 2y ago
On the cheaper side, Lansky makes a good jig and set of stones that's good for setting angles, and getting razor edges if you already have the angle set. [1] Worksharp makes a similar kit that's more stationary, with several versions at different costs [2] For a little more, and a little more freehand style, you can try Spyderco's Sharpmaker [3]. My dad has one of these, and growing up he would sharpen kitchen and pocket knives to a razor edge very quickly with it. I personally freehand sharpen my knives using Shapton stones [4]. I have the Kurumaku at 320, 1000, 2000, 5000, and 8000 grits, although the higher grits don't get used often; usually the 1000 grit alone is enough for getting a razor edge fairly quickly. I got mine from Amazon, but you can find them various places for $30-50 each. [1] https://www.lansky.com/deluxe-5-stone-system.html https://www.lansky.com/deluxe-5-stone-system.html [2] https://www.worksharptools.com/products/precision-adjust-knife-sharpener https://www.worksharptools.com/products/precision-adjust-kni... [3] https://www.spyderco.com/catalog/details.php?product=77 https://www.spyderco.com/catalog/details.php?product=77 [4] https://shapton.co.jp/en/#products https://shapton.co.jp/en/#products
vl 2y ago
Depends on level of commitment and results you need. To do it once and for all buy belt sharpener - Work Sharp with Blade Grinder Attachment being probably the best price vs quality vs functionality. For quality sharpening that requires a bit of time buy rolling knife sharpener. For quality sharpening which is fast and anyone can do buy electrical ChefMate with two slots and follow the instructions. PS Do not bother with anything that requires clamping the knife, etc. You’ll use it once - it’s just too much hustle to setup and adjust these systems. You spend most of the time unpacking, bolting it together and then readjusting the knife instead of sharpening. This is why rolling sharpeners work really well - fast magnetic attachment, angles are pre-set.
antoviaque 2y ago
The bottom of a ceramic mug works wonders.
hansvm 2y ago
If you're just doing normal stuff in the kitchen, the cheapest 400-grit diamond stone/plate bigger than a few inches you can find on Amazon is good enough. Once you can get a knife sharp with that it'll only take seconds to get it ready for normal use. The next step would probably be some kind of a strop/compound for removing the bur and polishing the edge. Doing so will improve edge retention substantially. After that, it's like anything; you can get as far as you'd like into the hobby; but you'll already be able to slice off translucent tomato windows without squishing anything, so it starts mattering less for normal use, especially with the battering a knife can take in the kitchen.
klausa 2y ago
Honestly — if you live in a big enough city where that's an option? Have a big enough collection of knives that you can take two out at a time, and bring them to a local, reputable sharpener (most shops that sell fancy/expensive/actual chef's knives will do this.). If you want to get into sharpening as a hobby, then getting a couple of whetstones is probably the easiest recommendation; but I just never got good enough at it and the process never got fun. I get the feeling that it becomes another aspect of a hobby for some; but I already make espresso at home, I have enough fiddly and frustrating kitchen hobbies.
jaredhallen 2y ago
This: https://www.amazon.com/Razor-Sharp-Edgemaking-System-Kit/dp/B0002IXQD8/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.gQ7V33-zJqyRbXZ1TZBlY92uzP8j_WjK9TxllRcap9SroKgECUhL4T6oO3_CAPC0cdfvZwbRMp8igRjH20wWYzViArTImXsHlnnspMmdjINNRA01yiXw4JCEAWnaAegs3SZDkPBVrLszncgBNkVWxwf5f60N4pZCFyyLjuRD_qSaNBfyN8tqJWmeelr3BBj_1yesrDAiOwPTLGcPnyNRug.neFRGM_Eu3E-HWg8gk8yQgNqwqEivu6GWM3wbcFbA8M&dib_tag=se&keywords=Paper+Sharpening+Wheels&qid=1734733043&sr=8-1 https://www.amazon.com/Razor-Sharp-Edgemaking-System-Kit/dp/...

krunck 2y ago

I've got a Japanese stainless steel Damascus kitchen knife. Sharp as hell. But you need to change your cutting technique because the edge is more brittle than the mushy steel knives we all know. That's not to say that mushy steel knives don't have a place in the kitchen. Always use the right tool for the job.