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I get the nostalgia, but it’s worth noting that modern metallurgy has far surpassed classic knife-making techniques. Industrially-made knives are stronger and h

I get the nostalgia, but it’s worth noting that modern metallurgy has far surpassed classic knife-making techniques. Industrially-made knives are stronger and hold an edge much better.

blovescoffee 2y ago
It really depends. A cheap knife from ikea will not. But a powdered steel knife which is itself a luxury will definitely hold its edge better than carbon steel.
- foobarian 2y ago
  There is also a tradeoff between ductility and hardness where going too far in the hardness direction results in a knife that chips easily and is really hard to sharpen. Softer German style steels are in a sweet spot for me in that regard, even though they require more frequent sharpening.
  - jazzyjackson 2y ago
    I was disappointed to find I had chipped my expensive Global chefs knife without having tried anything out of the ordinary like bones or nuts (side note, ceramic knives are not the tool for slicing pecans!)
  - adrian_b 2y ago
    The very purpose of the powdered steel mentioned by the previous poster is to improve this tradeoff between ductility and hardness. The simplest carbon steels can be made very hard with an appropriate heat treatment, if they have high carbon content, but then, as you say, they chip too easily. The various kinds of alloyed steels that can be used instead of carbon steel attempt to improve the tradeoff between ductility and hardness, so that one may choose a heat treatment that results in greater hardness without making the blade as fragile as a blade made of carbon steel with the same hardness. The alloyed steels made using powder metallurgy are said to achieve the best tradeoff between hardness and ductility, but I have not tested this yet, because they are also the most expensive. In the past I have used softer German style steels, but I do not like having to sharpen them, so now I prefer to use only harder and sharper Japanese knives, which must be sharpened much less frequently.
  - TheCondor 2y ago
    Do you have a sharpening system you recommend?
    - foobarian 2y ago
      Unfortunately nothing fancy, I have been doing it manually on a large (10") two-sided sharpening stone. More gear-oriented friends swear by products such as e.g. what's available here https://wickededgeusa.com/ https://wickededgeusa.com/
    - BanazirGalbasi 2y ago
      On the cheaper side, Lansky makes a good jig and set of stones that's good for setting angles, and getting razor edges if you already have the angle set. [1] Worksharp makes a similar kit that's more stationary, with several versions at different costs [2] For a little more, and a little more freehand style, you can try Spyderco's Sharpmaker [3]. My dad has one of these, and growing up he would sharpen kitchen and pocket knives to a razor edge very quickly with it. I personally freehand sharpen my knives using Shapton stones [4]. I have the Kurumaku at 320, 1000, 2000, 5000, and 8000 grits, although the higher grits don't get used often; usually the 1000 grit alone is enough for getting a razor edge fairly quickly. I got mine from Amazon, but you can find them various places for $30-50 each. [1] https://www.lansky.com/deluxe-5-stone-system.html https://www.lansky.com/deluxe-5-stone-system.html [2] https://www.worksharptools.com/products/precision-adjust-knife-sharpener https://www.worksharptools.com/products/precision-adjust-kni... [3] https://www.spyderco.com/catalog/details.php?product=77 https://www.spyderco.com/catalog/details.php?product=77 [4] https://shapton.co.jp/en/#products https://shapton.co.jp/en/#products
    - vl 2y ago
      Depends on level of commitment and results you need. To do it once and for all buy belt sharpener - Work Sharp with Blade Grinder Attachment being probably the best price vs quality vs functionality. For quality sharpening that requires a bit of time buy rolling knife sharpener. For quality sharpening which is fast and anyone can do buy electrical ChefMate with two slots and follow the instructions. PS Do not bother with anything that requires clamping the knife, etc. You’ll use it once - it’s just too much hustle to setup and adjust these systems. You spend most of the time unpacking, bolting it together and then readjusting the knife instead of sharpening. This is why rolling sharpeners work really well - fast magnetic attachment, angles are pre-set.
  - krunck 2y ago
    I've got a Japanese stainless steel Damascus kitchen knife. Sharp as hell. But you need to change your cutting technique because the edge is more brittle than the mushy steel knives we all know. That's not to say that mushy steel knives don't have a place in the kitchen. Always use the right tool for the job.
- SideburnsOfDoom 2y ago
  > A cheap knife from ikea will not. IKEA BRILJERA knives are the mid-range not cheapest ones. But they are not expensive. But they are made from (The Chinese version of) VG10 steel, which will hold an edge very well, and is still stainless.
antoviaque 2y ago
Indeed! I recently discovered how sharp and good Victorinox blades are. Even their cheap 10 euros blades are unbelievably sharp. To the point where you have to handle them with additional care compared to other knives. The nonchalant way I was handling the Ikea-type cooking knives got me a few deep cuts.
- jimnotgym 2y ago
  Same with 'Frosts of Mora' from Sweden. Cheap, and incredibly sharp when new. 100 of those, or a hipster damascas blade???
  - bigiain 2y ago
    I remember seeing some local (Australian) "celebrity chef" explain how he never sharpened his cleavers. He'd buy $8 cleavers of a specific brand that're widely available in Asian grocers here, and replace them when they lost enough of their edge to be noticeable. I now buy em 3 at a time, and while I don't use a cleaver that often, $25 worth of cleavers last me easily a couple of years. I have tried sharpening them, I have a Lansky knife sharpening kit/jig that I use for my other knives, and it works fine at least for the first or second time, but spending ~20 mins on an $8 knife instead of getting the spare out isn't something i choose to do. (And now I've typed that out, I feel somewhat guilty and wasteful about it...)
    - SamBam 2y ago
      It's not wasteful if you're giving them to your local Goodwill, or listing them free on Craigslist or something. It's only wasteful if you're throwing them in your trashcan.
- klausa 2y ago
  The issue with cheap knives isn't how sharp you can get them — you can _anything_ razor sharp relatively easily. Making a knife that _keeps_ sharp; and that will not chip/shatter/handle won't disintegrate is the difficult part. (You can also argue about blade geometries, how thin the blade is etc for hours; but "can this be made sharp" is not a problem with cheap/bad knives, generally.) --- My (very limited!) understanding of knife steels is that "powdered steels" are not what you'll find in a random big box store; but rather more expensive, "fancy" lines. You don't have to spend $450 on hand-forged, artisanal blade from Japan, but a $50 buck no-name is not going to be Buy-It-For-Life powdered steel knife either.

I get the nostalgia, but it’s worth noting that modern metallurgy has far surpassed classic knife-making techniques. Industrially-made knives are stronger and hold an edge much better.

blovescoffee 2y ago

It really depends. A cheap knife from ikea will not. But a powdered steel knife which is itself a luxury will definitely hold its edge better than carbon steel.

foobarian 2y ago
There is also a tradeoff between ductility and hardness where going too far in the hardness direction results in a knife that chips easily and is really hard to sharpen. Softer German style steels are in a sweet spot for me in that regard, even though they require more frequent sharpening.
- jazzyjackson 2y ago
  I was disappointed to find I had chipped my expensive Global chefs knife without having tried anything out of the ordinary like bones or nuts (side note, ceramic knives are not the tool for slicing pecans!)
- adrian_b 2y ago
  The very purpose of the powdered steel mentioned by the previous poster is to improve this tradeoff between ductility and hardness. The simplest carbon steels can be made very hard with an appropriate heat treatment, if they have high carbon content, but then, as you say, they chip too easily. The various kinds of alloyed steels that can be used instead of carbon steel attempt to improve the tradeoff between ductility and hardness, so that one may choose a heat treatment that results in greater hardness without making the blade as fragile as a blade made of carbon steel with the same hardness. The alloyed steels made using powder metallurgy are said to achieve the best tradeoff between hardness and ductility, but I have not tested this yet, because they are also the most expensive. In the past I have used softer German style steels, but I do not like having to sharpen them, so now I prefer to use only harder and sharper Japanese knives, which must be sharpened much less frequently.
- TheCondor 2y ago
  Do you have a sharpening system you recommend?
  - foobarian 2y ago
    Unfortunately nothing fancy, I have been doing it manually on a large (10") two-sided sharpening stone. More gear-oriented friends swear by products such as e.g. what's available here https://wickededgeusa.com/ https://wickededgeusa.com/
  - BanazirGalbasi 2y ago
    On the cheaper side, Lansky makes a good jig and set of stones that's good for setting angles, and getting razor edges if you already have the angle set. [1] Worksharp makes a similar kit that's more stationary, with several versions at different costs [2] For a little more, and a little more freehand style, you can try Spyderco's Sharpmaker [3]. My dad has one of these, and growing up he would sharpen kitchen and pocket knives to a razor edge very quickly with it. I personally freehand sharpen my knives using Shapton stones [4]. I have the Kurumaku at 320, 1000, 2000, 5000, and 8000 grits, although the higher grits don't get used often; usually the 1000 grit alone is enough for getting a razor edge fairly quickly. I got mine from Amazon, but you can find them various places for $30-50 each. [1] https://www.lansky.com/deluxe-5-stone-system.html https://www.lansky.com/deluxe-5-stone-system.html [2] https://www.worksharptools.com/products/precision-adjust-knife-sharpener https://www.worksharptools.com/products/precision-adjust-kni... [3] https://www.spyderco.com/catalog/details.php?product=77 https://www.spyderco.com/catalog/details.php?product=77 [4] https://shapton.co.jp/en/#products https://shapton.co.jp/en/#products
  - vl 2y ago
    Depends on level of commitment and results you need. To do it once and for all buy belt sharpener - Work Sharp with Blade Grinder Attachment being probably the best price vs quality vs functionality. For quality sharpening that requires a bit of time buy rolling knife sharpener. For quality sharpening which is fast and anyone can do buy electrical ChefMate with two slots and follow the instructions. PS Do not bother with anything that requires clamping the knife, etc. You’ll use it once - it’s just too much hustle to setup and adjust these systems. You spend most of the time unpacking, bolting it together and then readjusting the knife instead of sharpening. This is why rolling sharpeners work really well - fast magnetic attachment, angles are pre-set.
- krunck 2y ago
  I've got a Japanese stainless steel Damascus kitchen knife. Sharp as hell. But you need to change your cutting technique because the edge is more brittle than the mushy steel knives we all know. That's not to say that mushy steel knives don't have a place in the kitchen. Always use the right tool for the job.
SideburnsOfDoom 2y ago
> A cheap knife from ikea will not. IKEA BRILJERA knives are the mid-range not cheapest ones. But they are not expensive. But they are made from (The Chinese version of) VG10 steel, which will hold an edge very well, and is still stainless.

antoviaque 2y ago

Indeed! I recently discovered how sharp and good Victorinox blades are. Even their cheap 10 euros blades are unbelievably sharp. To the point where you have to handle them with additional care compared to other knives. The nonchalant way I was handling the Ikea-type cooking knives got me a few deep cuts.

jimnotgym 2y ago
Same with 'Frosts of Mora' from Sweden. Cheap, and incredibly sharp when new. 100 of those, or a hipster damascas blade???
- bigiain 2y ago
  I remember seeing some local (Australian) "celebrity chef" explain how he never sharpened his cleavers. He'd buy $8 cleavers of a specific brand that're widely available in Asian grocers here, and replace them when they lost enough of their edge to be noticeable. I now buy em 3 at a time, and while I don't use a cleaver that often, $25 worth of cleavers last me easily a couple of years. I have tried sharpening them, I have a Lansky knife sharpening kit/jig that I use for my other knives, and it works fine at least for the first or second time, but spending ~20 mins on an $8 knife instead of getting the spare out isn't something i choose to do. (And now I've typed that out, I feel somewhat guilty and wasteful about it...)
  - SamBam 2y ago
    It's not wasteful if you're giving them to your local Goodwill, or listing them free on Craigslist or something. It's only wasteful if you're throwing them in your trashcan.
klausa 2y ago
The issue with cheap knives isn't how sharp you can get them — you can _anything_ razor sharp relatively easily. Making a knife that _keeps_ sharp; and that will not chip/shatter/handle won't disintegrate is the difficult part. (You can also argue about blade geometries, how thin the blade is etc for hours; but "can this be made sharp" is not a problem with cheap/bad knives, generally.) --- My (very limited!) understanding of knife steels is that "powdered steels" are not what you'll find in a random big box store; but rather more expensive, "fancy" lines. You don't have to spend $450 on hand-forged, artisanal blade from Japan, but a $50 buck no-name is not going to be Buy-It-For-Life powdered steel knife either.