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Apple allows side loading. It’s an extra $8 a month and called a Developer Account. I have many side loaded apps on my iPhone. Stop repeating this. You can ref

Apple allows side loading. It’s an extra $8 a month and called a Developer Account. I have many side loaded apps on my iPhone. Stop repeating this. You can refine your argument to say “but that requires a MacBook and Xcode and two or three clicks to install” but it’s still side loading even if there’s some friction. Always has been.

to11mtm 2y ago
> Stop repeating this. No, because your counterpoint is disingenuous compared to options in other ecosystems. For starters, I can't just 'side load' shit I want to FAFO with from Itch.io that way, can I? Maybe I could, if I had a Macbook, but I don't. Also that's way way way more ceremony+cost than downloading an APK. Fire Tablet sideloading is just a matter a couple flips in a settings menu. Actual 'Android' devices are typically similar or less ceremony, although some security features may? have issues depending on how dumb they are vs how dumb what you are installing is vs how dumb you are for accepting the perms it asked for. But, for either of those cases, I don't need to pay 8$ a month and buy a macbook for the 'privilege' of installing whatever app I want on hardware I purchased. Frankly it's been the main thing that has kept me personally away from iPhones for the better part of a decade.
- fingerlocks 2y ago
  Not really sure what your counterpoint is. Yes there are some up front fixed costs and slightly more steps, but like I said, it's just friction. You can still side load. Plenty of Android devices make it virtually impossible to side-load (Xiaomi) so your argument doesn't even work in the general case. At this point the conversation veers off into arguments about lack of custom web renderers and JIT. I'll save you the trouble. iOS only allows safari wrappers because the kernel prevents mmap W^X to save Apple the support costs when Chrome gets a 0-day. That is the technical reason and it has nothing to do with side loading.
  - to11mtm 2y ago
    8$ a month isn't a fixed cost, it's recurring. > Plenty of Android devices make it virtually impossible to side-load (Xiaomi) OK so cherry picking specific android devices vs everything I've managed to buy in the last 12 years to your recurring cost (Primarily Samsung, sadly) for Andoid. > iOS only allows safari wrappers because the kernel prevents mmap W^X to save Apple the support costs when Chrome gets a 0-day. How's that going for them again? With the 0 days and kernel exploits? I'll agree it's better than Android but the overall is still smoke and mirrors IMO. You can have a non-safari browser boxed in non W^X env and it can work but JS might be trash. I really -do- want to experience the RDF sometime, can you help me? What am I doing wrong?

to11mtm 2y ago

> Stop repeating this. No, because your counterpoint is disingenuous compared to options in other ecosystems. For starters, I can't just 'side load' shit I want to FAFO with from Itch.io that way, can I? Maybe I could, if I had a Macbook, but I don't. Also that's way way way more ceremony+cost than downloading an APK. Fire Tablet sideloading is just a matter a couple flips in a settings menu. Actual 'Android' devices are typically similar or less ceremony, although some security features may? have issues depending on how dumb they are vs how dumb what you are installing is vs how dumb you are for accepting the perms it asked for. But, for either of those cases, I don't need to pay 8$ a month and buy a macbook for the 'privilege' of installing whatever app I want on hardware I purchased. Frankly it's been the main thing that has kept me personally away from iPhones for the better part of a decade.

fingerlocks 2y ago
Not really sure what your counterpoint is. Yes there are some up front fixed costs and slightly more steps, but like I said, it's just friction. You can still side load. Plenty of Android devices make it virtually impossible to side-load (Xiaomi) so your argument doesn't even work in the general case. At this point the conversation veers off into arguments about lack of custom web renderers and JIT. I'll save you the trouble. iOS only allows safari wrappers because the kernel prevents mmap W^X to save Apple the support costs when Chrome gets a 0-day. That is the technical reason and it has nothing to do with side loading.
- to11mtm 2y ago
  8$ a month isn't a fixed cost, it's recurring. > Plenty of Android devices make it virtually impossible to side-load (Xiaomi) OK so cherry picking specific android devices vs everything I've managed to buy in the last 12 years to your recurring cost (Primarily Samsung, sadly) for Andoid. > iOS only allows safari wrappers because the kernel prevents mmap W^X to save Apple the support costs when Chrome gets a 0-day. How's that going for them again? With the 0 days and kernel exploits? I'll agree it's better than Android but the overall is still smoke and mirrors IMO. You can have a non-safari browser boxed in non W^X env and it can work but JS might be trash. I really -do- want to experience the RDF sometime, can you help me? What am I doing wrong?