5 ms·

Should I spend 15 minutes each way driving (carbon emissions) to the store and waste 1 hr of my time in this case, when it can be delivered to me tomorrow? I d

by nxm 2y ago

Should I spend 15 minutes each way driving (carbon emissions) to the store and waste 1 hr of my time in this case, when it can be delivered to me tomorrow? I definitely want to support local, but the cost/benefits are not as clear in this case.

carlosjobim 2y ago
You really need to consider the reality outside of your own bubble of concern. Especially as your bubble doesn't even extend beyond the door of your house, since you don't understand that the Amazon delivery driver is also driving and also spending his time.
- cpitman 2y ago
  That driving and time is amortized across 1000s of deliveries.
  - carlosjobim 2y ago
    The product is delivered the same distance, whether it is from "Producer -> Amazon warehouses -> Customer" or if it is "Producer -> Retail warehouses -> Customer". An Amazon delivery car with a bunch of products to deliver is the equivalent of OP filling up his car with purchases when shopping in town.
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
    - gruez 2y ago
      >An Amazon delivery car with a bunch of products to deliver is the equivalent of OP filling up his car with purchases when shopping in town. Right, but if you want something in 2-3 days (which amazon provides), you need to make a dedicated trip. Even if timing wasn't a factor, at best doing a consolidated errand run allows you to visit a handful of stores, whereas an amazon delivery van delivers to dozens of houses in your neighborhood in one trip.
      - themaninthedark 2y ago
        Amazon built up a dedicated logistic network in order to get the 2-3 day delivery time. How does the Carbon Emissions of that factor in?
        gruez 2y ago
        Is there to believe that logistics network has worse emissions compared to logistics networks for brick and mortar stores? At least for me, most of the amazon packages' tracking shows up as departing from a local warehouse, so I'd imagine most of the fast delivery time comes from pre-positioning goods in warehouses near buyers, rather than shipping packages across the country using planes or whatever.
        themaninthedark 2y ago
        Most existing retailers did not own or run a private logistics network, they would use XPO, R+L, Old Dominion, etc. In order to get that amazing fast delivery time, Amazon had to create their own system. The creation of that system, created a large amount of Carbon emissions at it's onset just with the requisite vehicles require to make it happen. It also set off an arms race between logistics enterprises to try and deliver the same performance, leading to further emissions. >The primary function of Amazon Air is to transport Amazon packages from distant fulfillment centers that are outside of Amazon's local ground linehaul network for a specific area. They have their own air cargo service for shipping packages between Distribution centers. They wouldn't invest in that unless they had enough volume to make it profitable. I get that it is easy and convenient but please don't try to claim that it is ecological. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amazon_Air https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amazon_Air https://www.businesstechweekly.com/online-sales-and-growth/selling-online/amazon-supply-chain/ https://www.businesstechweekly.com/online-sales-and-growth/s... https://www.warehousingandfulfillment.com/warehousing-and-fulfillment-resources/the-top-logistics-companies-in-the-us-a-comprehensive-guide/ https://www.warehousingandfulfillment.com/warehousing-and-fu...
    - therealdrag0 2y ago
      The key is “filling up his car”. Most trips for most people aren’t like that. There is a tipping point for which it’s more efficient to order online. One study I saw said it takes 14 items before driving yourself is more efficient (of course the calculus is different for every car and route).
- bufferoverflow 2y ago
  The driver is getting paid for his time. You driving to a local store are not paid.
themaninthedark 2y ago
How much carbon emissions went into making that available to be delivered tomorrow? You have a a large fleet of 18 wheelers, delivery vans and forklifts. Then the warehouses that go into making the supply chain work.
- cloverich 2y ago
  Which are definitely more efficient than having every individual that needs something hop in a car and drive for 20+ minutes. One delivery person with goods for 100 people in their truck is literally one truck replacing one hundred drivers. It is absolutely much more efficient carbon wise. All of the warehouses and 18 wheelers exist either way, since the local shops still need all the same supplies, although presumably more widely distributed. The only way it works out is if people buy much less, which given prices would be much higher, they likely would.
  - themaninthedark 2y ago
    They didn't exist prior to Amazon deciding to offer 2day delivery, that's my point. Why else would they invest all that money, when they could use the already existing services that deliver to people's houses fairly quickly: FedEx, UPS and DHL or the slightly slower but goes everywhere every day USPS? Your one person is a truck delivering to 100 homes ignores the fact that at least 80% of the people in those homes have a car that they use everyday, often passing a grocery store and most other local shops. I have a longer reply talking about the Carbon usage below: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42463832 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42463832
    - therealdrag0 2y ago
      There are studies about this. I don’t know how good they are or what specific scenarios they apply to (urban vs rural vs rural are all different calculations). But what I’ve seen is it’s about 14 items you’d have to buy before going to the store yourself is more efficient than shopping online.

by nxm 2y ago

carlosjobim 2y ago

You really need to consider the reality outside of your own bubble of concern. Especially as your bubble doesn't even extend beyond the door of your house, since you don't understand that the Amazon delivery driver is also driving and also spending his time.

cpitman 2y ago
That driving and time is amortized across 1000s of deliveries.
- carlosjobim 2y ago
  The product is delivered the same distance, whether it is from "Producer -> Amazon warehouses -> Customer" or if it is "Producer -> Retail warehouses -> Customer". An Amazon delivery car with a bunch of products to deliver is the equivalent of OP filling up his car with purchases when shopping in town.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - gruez 2y ago
    >An Amazon delivery car with a bunch of products to deliver is the equivalent of OP filling up his car with purchases when shopping in town. Right, but if you want something in 2-3 days (which amazon provides), you need to make a dedicated trip. Even if timing wasn't a factor, at best doing a consolidated errand run allows you to visit a handful of stores, whereas an amazon delivery van delivers to dozens of houses in your neighborhood in one trip.
    - themaninthedark 2y ago
      Amazon built up a dedicated logistic network in order to get the 2-3 day delivery time. How does the Carbon Emissions of that factor in?
      - gruez 2y ago
        Is there to believe that logistics network has worse emissions compared to logistics networks for brick and mortar stores? At least for me, most of the amazon packages' tracking shows up as departing from a local warehouse, so I'd imagine most of the fast delivery time comes from pre-positioning goods in warehouses near buyers, rather than shipping packages across the country using planes or whatever.
        themaninthedark 2y ago
        Most existing retailers did not own or run a private logistics network, they would use XPO, R+L, Old Dominion, etc. In order to get that amazing fast delivery time, Amazon had to create their own system. The creation of that system, created a large amount of Carbon emissions at it's onset just with the requisite vehicles require to make it happen. It also set off an arms race between logistics enterprises to try and deliver the same performance, leading to further emissions. >The primary function of Amazon Air is to transport Amazon packages from distant fulfillment centers that are outside of Amazon's local ground linehaul network for a specific area. They have their own air cargo service for shipping packages between Distribution centers. They wouldn't invest in that unless they had enough volume to make it profitable. I get that it is easy and convenient but please don't try to claim that it is ecological. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amazon_Air https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amazon_Air https://www.businesstechweekly.com/online-sales-and-growth/selling-online/amazon-supply-chain/ https://www.businesstechweekly.com/online-sales-and-growth/s... https://www.warehousingandfulfillment.com/warehousing-and-fulfillment-resources/the-top-logistics-companies-in-the-us-a-comprehensive-guide/ https://www.warehousingandfulfillment.com/warehousing-and-fu...
  - therealdrag0 2y ago
    The key is “filling up his car”. Most trips for most people aren’t like that. There is a tipping point for which it’s more efficient to order online. One study I saw said it takes 14 items before driving yourself is more efficient (of course the calculus is different for every car and route).
bufferoverflow 2y ago
The driver is getting paid for his time. You driving to a local store are not paid.

themaninthedark 2y ago

How much carbon emissions went into making that available to be delivered tomorrow? You have a a large fleet of 18 wheelers, delivery vans and forklifts. Then the warehouses that go into making the supply chain work.

cloverich 2y ago
Which are definitely more efficient than having every individual that needs something hop in a car and drive for 20+ minutes. One delivery person with goods for 100 people in their truck is literally one truck replacing one hundred drivers. It is absolutely much more efficient carbon wise. All of the warehouses and 18 wheelers exist either way, since the local shops still need all the same supplies, although presumably more widely distributed. The only way it works out is if people buy much less, which given prices would be much higher, they likely would.
- themaninthedark 2y ago
  They didn't exist prior to Amazon deciding to offer 2day delivery, that's my point. Why else would they invest all that money, when they could use the already existing services that deliver to people's houses fairly quickly: FedEx, UPS and DHL or the slightly slower but goes everywhere every day USPS? Your one person is a truck delivering to 100 homes ignores the fact that at least 80% of the people in those homes have a car that they use everyday, often passing a grocery store and most other local shops. I have a longer reply talking about the Carbon usage below: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42463832 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42463832
  - therealdrag0 2y ago
    There are studies about this. I don’t know how good they are or what specific scenarios they apply to (urban vs rural vs rural are all different calculations). But what I’ve seen is it’s about 14 items you’d have to buy before going to the store yourself is more efficient than shopping online.