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What filmmaker is going to put in all this effort and spend $30K to shoot videos for a single platform that no one uses? At the very least they need to ditch th
by paxys 2y ago
What filmmaker is going to put in all this effort and spend $30K to shoot videos for a single platform that no one uses? At the very least they need to ditch the proprietary format and support Quest and other headsets.
- echoangle 2y agoDon’t filmmakers rent cameras for a few days/weeks?
- mikae1 2y agoYes.
- germinalphrase 2y agoAlmost always.
- smitelli 2y agoYes, and in some cases you can casually chat up the people at the rental house and find out what other (potentially high profile) productions the equipment was used on.
- mycall 2y agoAre you implying the Vison Pro ecosystem is dead and Apple will abandon it? Sometimes the supporting hardware takes time to manifest itself.
- jl6 2y agoAt the current price point, the AVP is destined to achieve a market position similar to LaserDisc.
- jsheard 2y agoIt's obviously going to get cheaper, but rumor is the second generation will only get the price down to about $2000 which is still well above the "lol nope" threshold for most people. Third times the charm? https://techcrunch.com/2024/10/13/apple-might-release-a-2000-vision-headset-next-year/ https://techcrunch.com/2024/10/13/apple-might-release-a-2000...
- jl6 2y agoHopefully, but I don't think it's obvious. We don't seem to be currently in an era of plummeting hardware prices.
- dmarcos 2y ago“VR will become something everyone wants before it becomes something everyone can afford” Palmer Luckey People that bought Vision Pro at $3,500 they are not using it all that much. A lower price will just result in more headsets gathering dust. VR has no product-market fit except for a couple of game niches. Far from the “next computing platform” that justified investment of tens of billions of dollars a year. Headsets and platforms need fundamental rethinking before optimizing for price.
- parasubvert 2y agoThis is false. People that bought Vision Pro are often using it for multiple hours a day. I am sure some collect dust, but many are heavily used. The Meta Quest is outselling the Xbox series. VR clearly has product market fit, but it doesn't yet have iPhone or iPad levels of market fit.
- kridsdale1 2y agoAnd maybe it just… won’t. We shouldn’t use that as the stick. Sometimes it’s ok to make Lamborghini and it’s not a failure to say it has less owners than the Corolla.
- dmarcos 2y ago
- n144q 2y agotakes time -- how long are we talking about here? Vision Pro has been released for near a year now. I don't think it got the traction that's anywhere close to the hype when it was first announced. Not even among VR enthusiasts, let alone the mass consumer market. There is an Apple Store near where I live. When I walk by it, 9 out of 10 times there is nobody around the Vision Pro booth, when many people are playing with iPhones and iPads.
- jsheard 2y agoThe Vision Pro also doesn't exist in a vacuum - Meta have spent much longer trying to make this work, with hardware that's literally an order of magnitude more affordable, and are still struggling to find any mainstream adoption.
- atrus 2y agoHonestly, I'd say that the vision pro is going to get less traction with VR enthusiasts because it's not that much better in some respects, and much worse in many others. The vision pro is much more suited to people who haven't used any VR before.
- wrboyce 2y agoHave you used an AVP? I am surprised at your claims. My friend has one and I’ve got a Quest 2 and I was absolutely blown away by the AVP, significantly better VR experience in my opinion.
- numpad0 2y agoThen why haven't you switched - I mean, how would you replace your existing VR use cases with Vision Pro as an upgrade, not mere same ballpark alternative with workarounds, set aside its upfront price?
- wrboyce 2y agoBit of a weird “gotcha” this to be honest, but I don’t use my Quest all that often and the AVP is too expensive for my taste.
- rchaud 2y agoMost of the world is facing affordability problems. A $3500 helmet is not top of mind for anyone. Apple isn't going throw money at this for much longer I feel. Immersive videos are not a selling point when considering the tradeoffs of using a headset.
- sneak 2y agoI feel like people forget that hardware takes 3-4 years to bring to market. This is so that people can begin making content for the Apple AR headset that comes out 3 years from now, not the $3500 devkit.
- philmcc 2y agoThank you for having one of the few reasonable takes on the Vision Pro. People also forget how bleak the iPad app market was for the first year or so. They also forget that VR has existed for the quest for the better part of 12 years and there are .... 4? 5? very good apps. Even now there's nothing -incredibly- compelling for the Quest. I'm not a hater, I've owned 5 of them starting at DK1.
- rchaud 2y agoThe iPad cost 14% of what AVP does, so comparisons to it are largely meaningless. iPads took off because a huge population of grandparents and kids had a use case for it....Netflix, Youtube and Newspapers on a device that's less complicated and cheaper than a full computer. No such equivalent exists for AVP, it's a new type of device for pretty much everybody.
- rchaud 2y agoIf it was a dev kit, they could have simply kept it under wraps and provided beta access to gauge developer interest, instead of the usual overwrought keynote. Who builds half a million units of a dev kit? Some stuff you can just tell is going to flop. This is one of them. Apple still doesn't get that people dont want to put on highly conspicuous headsets to watch a movie or play a game, they're fine using a phone or tablet for that. Zuckerberg still pretends like he didnt spend 2 years and untold billions trying to will Horizon Worlds into relevance. Similarly, nobody talks about immersive video on AVP as some kind of gamechanger, not even the usual Apple consumer strategy whisperers like Daring Fireball.
- MetaWhirledPeas 2y agoYou also have the Meta Quest 3 trucking along. That one is desperate for higher-quality 3D videos.
- KeplerBoy 2y agoFilmmakers funded by apple. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Studios https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Studios
- dialup_sounds 2y agoFilmmakers have already been using it to produce the existing immersive video content, so that's kind of a silly question. But it works for VR180, too, if that's your cup o tea. Moreover, it's not really a proprietary format and you can already play them officially on Quest.
- hu3 2y agoSo title is misleading. It shoots videos for other platforms as well.
- diggan 2y agoI dunno, Blackmagic clearly collaborates with Apple, and probably would have made this camera regardless of Apple Vision Pro or not, but once the two marketing departments came together, they decide to launch it with Apple Vision Pro filming in mind. That's not to say it cannot be used for other things. Blackmagic frequently market all their cameras for prosumer/professional film-making, but you can use the cameras for so much more than just recording films, although the marketing is geared towards film-markers. Doesn't make it misleading.
- dialup_sounds 2y agoThey're just echoing Black Magic's own pitch that it's "designed for" Apple's platform and format, and that's evidently true given the specs and features. I don't think of that as misleading.
- MobiusHorizons 2y agoMy take is "designed for Immersive Video" in the sense that Apple's format has very high specifications, and most other HMDs do not demand 8k per eye or 90fps. This camera meets the minimum specification for the Immersive Video format, but that doesn't mean you wouldn't also be able to render the output to other formats.
- dagmx 2y agoYou are mistaken in your last point. The Quest doesn’t play the Apple Immersive video formats, only their MV-HEVC stereo format. Nobody has been able to extract Apples immersive videos yet and I’m not convinced the Quest has the decoding power for it. It’s a lot of pixels to decode (16k at 90fps) , while also doing reprojection of the frames (https://hackaday.com/2024/04/18/unraveling-the-secrets-of-apples-mysterious-fisheye-format/ https://hackaday.com/2024/04/18/unraveling-the-secrets-of-ap...) and I don’t believe their Qualcomm chip used has enough juice leftover to do that.
- lm28469 2y ago$30k is not particularly expensive for a cinema camera
- dylan604 2y agoIt is rather expensive for BMD though. It's not like this is the full set of panels for Resolve with that price tag.
- diggan 2y agoIs it though? Two URSA Cine would run about the same cost, and this camera effectively are two URSA Cines put into one.
- dylan604 2y agoYes. Because it's twice the cost of the URSA Cine. The equivalent to the Cine from other makers starts at the $30k and goes up depending on what options you want. Except, at those prices, you're only getting 4K. Red, Arri, Sony, etc won't even get out of bed for anything less than $30k. That's just BMD's DNA to give the customer so much bang for their buck. Every thing they offer is so much lower MSRPs than competitors. I remember when they first released Resolve for Mac, for free after BMD acquired DaVinci. Of course it couldn't do much without a $20k MacPro build, but the software was free. This was running right next to the $50k Resolve Linux build, so naturally it was jaw dropping.
- ryandamm 2y agoRed has two cameras that cost less than $10k.
- dagmx 2y agoThis is the same cost as the standard Ursa Cine 17k however that it is derived from https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/media/release/20240912-03 https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/media/release/20240912-03
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- backspace_ 2y agoMKBHD will probably race over to buy or cover that piece of equipment. Hopefully no tickets for speeding will occur.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- almostgotcaught 2y ago> What filmmaker is going to put in all this effort and spend $30K to shoot videos Pornographers
- fidotron 2y agoFelix and Paul studios built their own “cameras” for stereoscopic 3D back before even the Oculus dev kits were widely available. There is an ecosystem of similar studios that did this, and that is where the better stuff on the Meta Quests comes from. If you pay attention in their work you can see how they try to hide the hard drive array that was required, and sometimes also the accountant holding on to it so that it doesn’t get swept away.
- dylan604 2y agoI was at a studio in that ecosystem you describe. In the early days of live action VR, we were building our own rigs. We experimented with different camera bodies, lenses, and configurations. Camera configurations changed when the software could create 3D by using data from all of the cameras. It was a lot of fun just from raw R&D and having someone paying to rent all of the various camera gear to essentially play and create things. At least until the fad was recognized for what it was, and the funding dried up
- makestuff 2y agoYeah there needs to be a common format for all of the headsets to adopt or at least apple needs to provide an easy way to convert into their format (maybe they already do in final cut pro). IMO vision pro is like the first iPhone/iPad and in a few years if they keep refining it there will be a larger adoption. I think the main thing is that it should support full mac os apps without tethering to an external macbook/mac mini. They need to move the compute out of the headset itself and into the battery module. Apple probably would never do this, but imagine if you bought a mac mini sized compute module that could go on an external display or connect to a vision pro device. If the compute was separate the headset would be significantly lighter and more comfortable.
- dawnerd 2y agoI’m guessing the same ones that use extremely expensive 3d rigs that are only used for theatrical 3d runs of movies? 30k isn’t all that much
- jsheard 2y agoIt's ever-increasingly common for 3D movies to not actually be filmed or rendered in 3D because it's so much cheaper to fake it in post. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_3D_films_(2005%E2%80%93present)#2024 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_3D_films_(2005%E2%80%9... Of the 13 3D movies released this year only four are native 3D, and those are all fully CGI animation, so none of them used 3D cameras. Avatar 2 (2022) was the last movie to use 3D cameras for live action shots and Avatar 3 is the only upcoming movie known to be using them. It's beyond niche at this point unless your name is James Cameron.
- rpmisms 2y agoWell of course, movies are composited so heavily these days that you can simply toss another step in the pipeline and have a 3d conversion. It's amazingly easy now.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]