3 ms·

The CUII blocks seem to only be applied at the DNS level, so if you just use a different DNS server from the ISP default, you’re fine.

moontear 2y ago
Circumvention is easy, that is true. It still leaves a sour taste in one’s mouth that you can’t use any default German ISP DNS server without seemingly random blocking orders.
cynicalsecurity 2y ago
It doesn't matter how easy it is to bypass. It's about this situation of violation of freedom and transparency not being acceptable in the first place.
- echoangle 2y ago
  But the main service of my ISP is the internet access, the DNS is basically a free addition that isn’t really relevant to the thing I contract them for. Its like renting a server at Hetzner and their wiki on how to install some program has an error. It’s not ideal but the main point of the service isn’t impacted.
  - xvinci 2y ago
    That's a very naive take imho. As far as I am aware your default DNS server on widnows is obtained via DHCP, meaning for most people it is chosen by the hardware provided by your ISP. Most people would include working DNS resolution to their "I bought internet access from you", even though they might not know about DNS and you are tecnically right. But I bet even judges would see it that way.
    - lovich 2y ago
      Yea, arguing that DNS resolution is not part of your internet service is like the utility arguing that water isn’t included as part of your hookup, the real service is the pipes and you can source alternate water to fill it
    - echoangle 2y ago
      Even the router isn’t really your ISPs job, I bring my own and don’t care. Of course some users are just going to do the easy thing and get Router and config from the ISP. But that’s less bad than DPI for example.
      - rfl890 2y ago
        Keep in mind that their target demographic isn't hackers, it's the average Joe who probably doesn't know what DNS is.
        layer8 2y ago
        Not to excuse anything, but there’s a significant segment of reasonably computer-savvy users between “hackers” and the average Joe, who do know well enough what DNS is, just like they know what VPNs are and their use for streaming and the like.
        immibis 2y ago
        When are operating systems going to start resolving names themselves instead of relying on ISP caches?
      - 7bit 2y ago
        Why do you continue to argue down the naive path?
      - axus 2y ago
        I'm using the router provided by ISP as part of the contract for service. As long as they don't withhold administrator credentials, no problem.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - jcarrano 2y ago
    Only because most people don't set their DNS server manually. When most OSes and/or browsers start ignoring the default DNS settings ISPs will devise another system which does impact the main point of the service.
ajsnigrutin 2y ago
What is DNS? What is level? What isp dns level domain block, what? I'm just a random grandma using the internet, and the site doesn't work for me?! DNS level blocking efficiently blocks content for 99% of the users, and that last 1% (or even less), can't be blocked at all (tor, vpns, etc.), so they don't matter.
- Barrin92 2y ago
  >I'm just a random grandma using the internet To be fair if you're a grandma in Germany you likely visit your favorite weather site and yahoo or whatever, as you can see from the leaked list of blocked ips it's basically illegal gambling and streaming sites. I get the theoretical argument but in practice pretty much anyone who is likely to run into dns blocked sites is also the kind of person who knows how to at least Google how to get past them
  - ajsnigrutin 2y ago
    My dad (grandpa-aged) uses a local torrent site, heavily moderated though (viruses, etc. get quickly removed), and he uses that because it's in our native language (his english is bad) and movies come with subtitles in the torrent. If it gets blocked, there's no way he'll figure out DNS by himself.
sharpshadow 2y ago
Yea that is repeatedly the case that certain websites stop working here in Germany because the ISP blocked them and one has to quick change DNS to 1.1.1.1 for example.

moontear 2y ago

Circumvention is easy, that is true. It still leaves a sour taste in one’s mouth that you can’t use any default German ISP DNS server without seemingly random blocking orders.

cynicalsecurity 2y ago

It doesn't matter how easy it is to bypass. It's about this situation of violation of freedom and transparency not being acceptable in the first place.

echoangle 2y ago
But the main service of my ISP is the internet access, the DNS is basically a free addition that isn’t really relevant to the thing I contract them for. Its like renting a server at Hetzner and their wiki on how to install some program has an error. It’s not ideal but the main point of the service isn’t impacted.
- xvinci 2y ago
  That's a very naive take imho. As far as I am aware your default DNS server on widnows is obtained via DHCP, meaning for most people it is chosen by the hardware provided by your ISP. Most people would include working DNS resolution to their "I bought internet access from you", even though they might not know about DNS and you are tecnically right. But I bet even judges would see it that way.
  - lovich 2y ago
    Yea, arguing that DNS resolution is not part of your internet service is like the utility arguing that water isn’t included as part of your hookup, the real service is the pipes and you can source alternate water to fill it
  - echoangle 2y ago
    Even the router isn’t really your ISPs job, I bring my own and don’t care. Of course some users are just going to do the easy thing and get Router and config from the ISP. But that’s less bad than DPI for example.
    - rfl890 2y ago
      Keep in mind that their target demographic isn't hackers, it's the average Joe who probably doesn't know what DNS is.
      - layer8 2y ago
        Not to excuse anything, but there’s a significant segment of reasonably computer-savvy users between “hackers” and the average Joe, who do know well enough what DNS is, just like they know what VPNs are and their use for streaming and the like.
      - immibis 2y ago
        When are operating systems going to start resolving names themselves instead of relying on ISP caches?
    - 7bit 2y ago
      Why do you continue to argue down the naive path?
    - axus 2y ago
      I'm using the router provided by ISP as part of the contract for service. As long as they don't withhold administrator credentials, no problem.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- jcarrano 2y ago
  Only because most people don't set their DNS server manually. When most OSes and/or browsers start ignoring the default DNS settings ISPs will devise another system which does impact the main point of the service.

ajsnigrutin 2y ago

What is DNS? What is level? What isp dns level domain block, what? I'm just a random grandma using the internet, and the site doesn't work for me?! DNS level blocking efficiently blocks content for 99% of the users, and that last 1% (or even less), can't be blocked at all (tor, vpns, etc.), so they don't matter.

Barrin92 2y ago
>I'm just a random grandma using the internet To be fair if you're a grandma in Germany you likely visit your favorite weather site and yahoo or whatever, as you can see from the leaked list of blocked ips it's basically illegal gambling and streaming sites. I get the theoretical argument but in practice pretty much anyone who is likely to run into dns blocked sites is also the kind of person who knows how to at least Google how to get past them
- ajsnigrutin 2y ago
  My dad (grandpa-aged) uses a local torrent site, heavily moderated though (viruses, etc. get quickly removed), and he uses that because it's in our native language (his english is bad) and movies come with subtitles in the torrent. If it gets blocked, there's no way he'll figure out DNS by himself.

sharpshadow 2y ago

Yea that is repeatedly the case that certain websites stop working here in Germany because the ISP blocked them and one has to quick change DNS to 1.1.1.1 for example.