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Am I the only one who hears "Software Defined Vehicles" and thinks, "wow, these companies really have entirely lost touch with what everyday people need and/or

Am I the only one who hears "Software Defined Vehicles" and thinks, "wow, these companies really have entirely lost touch with what everyday people need and/or want" ?

Glyptodon 2y ago
I'm half convinced the right company could make a decent hybrid small or tiny vehicle (like Fiat 500 size or Mini size at most) for under $15k given Ford apparently was or is fine making hybrid Mavericks for like $26k and only raised the price because dealers and lack of competitive forces. Though the prices of three wheelers (often more than a Maverick) suggest maybe I'm wrong.
- jillesvangurp 2y ago
  Where's the fun in that when consumers happily pay twice as much? There's no question you can make decent cars under 10K$. There are lots of those on the market in China. Most of them are pure electric of course because they are good enough, super simple to build, and inherently cheaper to make than anything hybrid. If you are competing on price, cutting cost like that is what you do.
- nickserv 2y ago
  Fiat 500 and Mini Cooper are certainly not tiny. I mean the originals from the 70's yeah but the new ones are huge and bloated in comparison. Anyway such tiny vehicles do exist in Europe and Asia. The Citroën Ami (the new EV one) comes to mind in Europe, where it's had some success, but is still kinda expensive for what it is.
- gessha 2y ago
  Those cars already exist, look at all the cars produced for the Indian market.
Dalewyn 2y ago
Considering Windows and then iOS were smashing surprise success stories, vehicles defined by software probably is barking up the right tree. The problem is whether the barking is effective.
cyberax 2y ago
No, people actually want feature-rich vehicles. Pretty much nobody outside of corporate actors is buying "bare" cars. And software doesn't actually cost that much. Just look at the Chinese market.
- bboygravity 2y ago
  I don't think that's necesairily true for HN people? I regularly get mind-blown by the number of anti-features of modern cars v.s. my 32 y/o Camry. Some that come to mind: no physical buttons, no right/possibility to repair the car yourself, can't replace the car stereo by something else, extremely slow unusable navigation systems even in 2024 models (I just use my smartphone and put it where the screen would be in a modern car), beeping when not wearing seatbelt even at 5 km/hr on a parking lot, data plans/simcards to enable car spyware, extremely expensive tires with (broken) pressure sensors in them, headlights made of plastic instead of glass that get ugly after a couple of years, use of rusting materials instead of aluminum for body, active suspension systems that are extremely expensive to service, tons of unnecessary electronics that will break as the car gets slightly older and extremely expensive to service. I could go on and on.
  - VariousPrograms 2y ago
    The first time I drove some new-ish Toyota that displayed a tap-to-dismiss advertisement for the navigation subscription every single time you started it up, I knew I would never own one of these smartphones on wheels.
  - vv_ 2y ago
    > no physical buttons New cars are reintroducing physical buttons again. > no right/possibility to repair the car yourself Unless you're talking about electric vehicles, this isn't true. You can buy diagnostic equipment and do the repairs yourself on most modern cars. > can't replace the car stereo by something else Huh? > extremely slow unusable navigation systems even in 2024 models That's why you don't buy a car without Apple CarPlay or Android Auto. It's especially good on newer vehicles as there are integrations with the dashboard and HUD too. > beeping when not wearing seatbelt even at 5 km/hr on a parking lot This is because of government regulation. > data plans/simcards to enable car spyware You're not obligated to buy them. I don't think their software package is good enough to warrant such a purchase, but if they would be able to bring it up to what aftermarket guys are offering it would be a great addition. > extremely expensive tires with (broken) pressure sensors in them Huh? > headlights made of plastic instead of glass that get ugly after a couple of years You can restore them fairly easily. It's funny you ignore that the same issue happened to old cars too, on top of the fact their headlights were horrible to begin with. > use of rusting materials instead of aluminum for body This is partly because of regulation and partly because of cost-cutting. > active suspension systems that are extremely expensive to service Buy an expensive high-performance vehicle and it'll be costly to service. > tons of unnecessary electronics that will break as the car gets slightly older and extremely expensive to service The regulatory environment has changed significantly. Without these sensors you'd have a very inefficient or very slow car. Furthermore, the vast majority of these sensors you can change yourself.
froh 2y ago
imnsho it's a shiny misnomer for software dependent vehicle. cars today need software as much as they need a drive train and wheels.

Am I the only one who hears "Software Defined Vehicles" and thinks, "wow, these companies really have entirely lost touch with what everyday people need and/or want" ?

Glyptodon 2y ago

I'm half convinced the right company could make a decent hybrid small or tiny vehicle (like Fiat 500 size or Mini size at most) for under $15k given Ford apparently was or is fine making hybrid Mavericks for like $26k and only raised the price because dealers and lack of competitive forces. Though the prices of three wheelers (often more than a Maverick) suggest maybe I'm wrong.

jillesvangurp 2y ago
Where's the fun in that when consumers happily pay twice as much? There's no question you can make decent cars under 10K$. There are lots of those on the market in China. Most of them are pure electric of course because they are good enough, super simple to build, and inherently cheaper to make than anything hybrid. If you are competing on price, cutting cost like that is what you do.
nickserv 2y ago
Fiat 500 and Mini Cooper are certainly not tiny. I mean the originals from the 70's yeah but the new ones are huge and bloated in comparison. Anyway such tiny vehicles do exist in Europe and Asia. The Citroën Ami (the new EV one) comes to mind in Europe, where it's had some success, but is still kinda expensive for what it is.
gessha 2y ago
Those cars already exist, look at all the cars produced for the Indian market.

Dalewyn 2y ago

Considering Windows and then iOS were smashing surprise success stories, vehicles defined by software probably is barking up the right tree. The problem is whether the barking is effective.

cyberax 2y ago

No, people actually want feature-rich vehicles. Pretty much nobody outside of corporate actors is buying "bare" cars. And software doesn't actually cost that much. Just look at the Chinese market.

bboygravity 2y ago
I don't think that's necesairily true for HN people? I regularly get mind-blown by the number of anti-features of modern cars v.s. my 32 y/o Camry. Some that come to mind: no physical buttons, no right/possibility to repair the car yourself, can't replace the car stereo by something else, extremely slow unusable navigation systems even in 2024 models (I just use my smartphone and put it where the screen would be in a modern car), beeping when not wearing seatbelt even at 5 km/hr on a parking lot, data plans/simcards to enable car spyware, extremely expensive tires with (broken) pressure sensors in them, headlights made of plastic instead of glass that get ugly after a couple of years, use of rusting materials instead of aluminum for body, active suspension systems that are extremely expensive to service, tons of unnecessary electronics that will break as the car gets slightly older and extremely expensive to service. I could go on and on.
- VariousPrograms 2y ago
  The first time I drove some new-ish Toyota that displayed a tap-to-dismiss advertisement for the navigation subscription every single time you started it up, I knew I would never own one of these smartphones on wheels.
- vv_ 2y ago
  > no physical buttons New cars are reintroducing physical buttons again. > no right/possibility to repair the car yourself Unless you're talking about electric vehicles, this isn't true. You can buy diagnostic equipment and do the repairs yourself on most modern cars. > can't replace the car stereo by something else Huh? > extremely slow unusable navigation systems even in 2024 models That's why you don't buy a car without Apple CarPlay or Android Auto. It's especially good on newer vehicles as there are integrations with the dashboard and HUD too. > beeping when not wearing seatbelt even at 5 km/hr on a parking lot This is because of government regulation. > data plans/simcards to enable car spyware You're not obligated to buy them. I don't think their software package is good enough to warrant such a purchase, but if they would be able to bring it up to what aftermarket guys are offering it would be a great addition. > extremely expensive tires with (broken) pressure sensors in them Huh? > headlights made of plastic instead of glass that get ugly after a couple of years You can restore them fairly easily. It's funny you ignore that the same issue happened to old cars too, on top of the fact their headlights were horrible to begin with. > use of rusting materials instead of aluminum for body This is partly because of regulation and partly because of cost-cutting. > active suspension systems that are extremely expensive to service Buy an expensive high-performance vehicle and it'll be costly to service. > tons of unnecessary electronics that will break as the car gets slightly older and extremely expensive to service The regulatory environment has changed significantly. Without these sensors you'd have a very inefficient or very slow car. Furthermore, the vast majority of these sensors you can change yourself.

froh 2y ago

imnsho it's a shiny misnomer for software dependent vehicle. cars today need software as much as they need a drive train and wheels.