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Not person you are replying to, but I think lack of sideloading is a big factor, since it impacts ease of doing anything outside appstore. AFA Security and pri

Not person you are replying to, but I think lack of sideloading is a big factor, since it impacts ease of doing anything outside appstore. AFA Security and privacy, I think security issues have been brought up previously on HN where the relative closed-ness of Apple and how the respond to some security reports raises questions whether the RDF is in play. I want to be clear that I trust them more than others. At the same time, while I got my dad an iPhone to replace his Lumia 640 (because Microsoft does stupid things) I still use an android phone. Why? Because for someone like him, yes, it is safer. > Can you elaborate on this “excuse” and “exploitation” you are talking about? I am curious because I fully believe Apple really cares about security and privacy and goes to great lengths to preserve it for their users. Sure they use it as a strategy, and that is how they justify the investment. Going back to windows phone, I'll give a fun example. Why didn't Windows phones get Snapchat? because MS literally would not let that be collectible by 3rd party apps (Not sure about 1st party.) and that was a sticking point. Not the best move for them at the time (definitely hurt uptake on folks still 'new' to smartphones to become a 3rd player) yet it is arguably a more strict stance than what apple did/does. I'll also note, Apple gets instant bad karma from me AFA the combination of (1) not allowing sideloading, (2) taking the cut they do on all transactions, alongside (3) still giving better deals to huge players like netflix. TBH I just want to be able to buy shit to read on my kindle account without going through a circus on my android phone, yet it's a big sign of how fucked things are in the overall ecosystem.

fingerlocks 2y ago
Apple allows side loading. It’s an extra $8 a month and called a Developer Account. I have many side loaded apps on my iPhone. Stop repeating this. You can refine your argument to say “but that requires a MacBook and Xcode and two or three clicks to install” but it’s still side loading even if there’s some friction. Always has been.
- to11mtm 2y ago
  > Stop repeating this. No, because your counterpoint is disingenuous compared to options in other ecosystems. For starters, I can't just 'side load' shit I want to FAFO with from Itch.io that way, can I? Maybe I could, if I had a Macbook, but I don't. Also that's way way way more ceremony+cost than downloading an APK. Fire Tablet sideloading is just a matter a couple flips in a settings menu. Actual 'Android' devices are typically similar or less ceremony, although some security features may? have issues depending on how dumb they are vs how dumb what you are installing is vs how dumb you are for accepting the perms it asked for. But, for either of those cases, I don't need to pay 8$ a month and buy a macbook for the 'privilege' of installing whatever app I want on hardware I purchased. Frankly it's been the main thing that has kept me personally away from iPhones for the better part of a decade.
  - fingerlocks 2y ago
    Not really sure what your counterpoint is. Yes there are some up front fixed costs and slightly more steps, but like I said, it's just friction. You can still side load. Plenty of Android devices make it virtually impossible to side-load (Xiaomi) so your argument doesn't even work in the general case. At this point the conversation veers off into arguments about lack of custom web renderers and JIT. I'll save you the trouble. iOS only allows safari wrappers because the kernel prevents mmap W^X to save Apple the support costs when Chrome gets a 0-day. That is the technical reason and it has nothing to do with side loading.
    - to11mtm 2y ago
      8$ a month isn't a fixed cost, it's recurring. > Plenty of Android devices make it virtually impossible to side-load (Xiaomi) OK so cherry picking specific android devices vs everything I've managed to buy in the last 12 years to your recurring cost (Primarily Samsung, sadly) for Andoid. > iOS only allows safari wrappers because the kernel prevents mmap W^X to save Apple the support costs when Chrome gets a 0-day. How's that going for them again? With the 0 days and kernel exploits? I'll agree it's better than Android but the overall is still smoke and mirrors IMO. You can have a non-safari browser boxed in non W^X env and it can work but JS might be trash. I really -do- want to experience the RDF sometime, can you help me? What am I doing wrong?

fingerlocks 2y ago

Apple allows side loading. It’s an extra $8 a month and called a Developer Account. I have many side loaded apps on my iPhone. Stop repeating this. You can refine your argument to say “but that requires a MacBook and Xcode and two or three clicks to install” but it’s still side loading even if there’s some friction. Always has been.

to11mtm 2y ago
> Stop repeating this. No, because your counterpoint is disingenuous compared to options in other ecosystems. For starters, I can't just 'side load' shit I want to FAFO with from Itch.io that way, can I? Maybe I could, if I had a Macbook, but I don't. Also that's way way way more ceremony+cost than downloading an APK. Fire Tablet sideloading is just a matter a couple flips in a settings menu. Actual 'Android' devices are typically similar or less ceremony, although some security features may? have issues depending on how dumb they are vs how dumb what you are installing is vs how dumb you are for accepting the perms it asked for. But, for either of those cases, I don't need to pay 8$ a month and buy a macbook for the 'privilege' of installing whatever app I want on hardware I purchased. Frankly it's been the main thing that has kept me personally away from iPhones for the better part of a decade.
- fingerlocks 2y ago
  Not really sure what your counterpoint is. Yes there are some up front fixed costs and slightly more steps, but like I said, it's just friction. You can still side load. Plenty of Android devices make it virtually impossible to side-load (Xiaomi) so your argument doesn't even work in the general case. At this point the conversation veers off into arguments about lack of custom web renderers and JIT. I'll save you the trouble. iOS only allows safari wrappers because the kernel prevents mmap W^X to save Apple the support costs when Chrome gets a 0-day. That is the technical reason and it has nothing to do with side loading.
  - to11mtm 2y ago
    8$ a month isn't a fixed cost, it's recurring. > Plenty of Android devices make it virtually impossible to side-load (Xiaomi) OK so cherry picking specific android devices vs everything I've managed to buy in the last 12 years to your recurring cost (Primarily Samsung, sadly) for Andoid. > iOS only allows safari wrappers because the kernel prevents mmap W^X to save Apple the support costs when Chrome gets a 0-day. How's that going for them again? With the 0 days and kernel exploits? I'll agree it's better than Android but the overall is still smoke and mirrors IMO. You can have a non-safari browser boxed in non W^X env and it can work but JS might be trash. I really -do- want to experience the RDF sometime, can you help me? What am I doing wrong?