3 ms·

This feels strongly in the same vein as rent price fixing (1). What is the path to the illegalizing of these abuses? Or should we see the below successful actio

This feels strongly in the same vein as rent price fixing (1). What is the path to the illegalizing of these abuses? Or should we see the below successful actions as indication that existing laws are sufficient? Should we expect similar action against exploitative "gig economy" companies? (1) https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/justice-department-sues-realpage-algorithmic-pricing-scheme-harms-millions-american-renters https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/justice-department-sues-realp...

Duwensatzaj 2y ago
>rent price fixing RealPage leads to faster rent drops when the economy is slow. It makes price discovery easier for landlords. https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=4403058 https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=4403058 Key quote: “ We find strong evidence that algorithmic pricing helps building managers set prices that are more responsive to market conditions, with adopters lowering rents more rapidly than non-adopters during economic downturns.” The claim that RealPage leads to price fixing reminds me of the claim that inflation is happening due to corporate greed.
- dqv 2y ago
  ... the concerns about price fixing aren't about the velocity at which the prices change, they are about the magnitude of the prices. From the paper you linked: > We also find that average rents are higher and average occupancies are lower in markets with greater algorithmic penetration during periods of economic recovery. > We estimate that the coordination channel results in an average markup increase of $25 per unit per month, impacting about 4.2 million units nationwide.
DannyBee 2y ago
This a subspeciality of employment law, and is complex enough that it's not my thing. That said my understanding and experience is they can't be considered a contractor in this case (which is the goal) Contractors must be able to control their hours. In fact, that's the main legal test - do they have autonomy in controlling their work hours. This trick of forcing them to be reserved but not paying them, yet claiming they are contractors is an old one, and as far as i know has rarely if ever been successful. That is - it has been one of the main determining factors in whether somebody is a contractor, and it is remarkably hard to find a court case where the court was like "yeah this is fine" and not "actually these are employees". To cement this further, the department of labor issued proposed guidance on this last year saying (essentially) that exerting control in ways that force lack of autonomy in practice is the same thing as controlling their hours directly- ie directly on point. If they are instead hourly employees then they already have to be paid for the time you force them to be unavailable for other things.
- ziggyzecat 2y ago
  wtf. this does not sound like complexity, not even nonsense, actually. [ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Not_even_wrong https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Not_even_wrong ] I understand why this wouldn't be anyone's thing. Do you know of any countries where government employees handled 'the whole thing' adequately?

Duwensatzaj 2y ago

>rent price fixing RealPage leads to faster rent drops when the economy is slow. It makes price discovery easier for landlords. https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=4403058 https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=4403058 Key quote: “ We find strong evidence that algorithmic pricing helps building managers set prices that are more responsive to market conditions, with adopters lowering rents more rapidly than non-adopters during economic downturns.” The claim that RealPage leads to price fixing reminds me of the claim that inflation is happening due to corporate greed.

dqv 2y ago
... the concerns about price fixing aren't about the velocity at which the prices change, they are about the magnitude of the prices. From the paper you linked: > We also find that average rents are higher and average occupancies are lower in markets with greater algorithmic penetration during periods of economic recovery. > We estimate that the coordination channel results in an average markup increase of $25 per unit per month, impacting about 4.2 million units nationwide.

DannyBee 2y ago

This a subspeciality of employment law, and is complex enough that it's not my thing. That said my understanding and experience is they can't be considered a contractor in this case (which is the goal) Contractors must be able to control their hours. In fact, that's the main legal test - do they have autonomy in controlling their work hours. This trick of forcing them to be reserved but not paying them, yet claiming they are contractors is an old one, and as far as i know has rarely if ever been successful. That is - it has been one of the main determining factors in whether somebody is a contractor, and it is remarkably hard to find a court case where the court was like "yeah this is fine" and not "actually these are employees". To cement this further, the department of labor issued proposed guidance on this last year saying (essentially) that exerting control in ways that force lack of autonomy in practice is the same thing as controlling their hours directly- ie directly on point. If they are instead hourly employees then they already have to be paid for the time you force them to be unavailable for other things.

ziggyzecat 2y ago
wtf. this does not sound like complexity, not even nonsense, actually. [ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Not_even_wrong https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Not_even_wrong ] I understand why this wouldn't be anyone's thing. Do you know of any countries where government employees handled 'the whole thing' adequately?