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> If Apple were to have to grant all of these requests, Facebook, Instagram, and WhatsApp could enable Meta to read on a user's device all of their messages and

by n144q 2y ago

> If Apple were to have to grant all of these requests, Facebook, Instagram, and WhatsApp could enable Meta to read on a user's device all of their messages and emails I assume ultimately users will need to grant the permission for these things? If Apple did their part to inform user of the consequences, and yet user decides to allow access, who is Apple to judge?

rtpg 2y ago
Yeah my guess here is that Meta wants WhatsApp to hook into the "native" phone calling system and messages etc. As someone who used to use a lot of third party apps for core functionality in Android, I ... like the idea of third party apps taking over some of this stuff. But I don't know if I want Meta to be the one to do it!
yalogin 2y ago
Letting the users decide is a sure way to lose the plot on data. There are always users that will want to give away their data and so services won’t have any incentive to build services that preserve privacy or attempt to reduce user data consumption. I would much rather be strict and let them not get any new data beyond what is already lost
threeseed 2y ago
You do realise that Facebook, Instagram, WhatsApp etc are thriving today without these permissions. And the problem with companies like Meta is that their terms of service are so complex and indecipherable that it’s almost a certainty you will approve giving them photos to share with friends and then turn around and use it for ads.
WhyNotHugo 2y ago
I wouldn't be surprised if applications permanently show a notification "you haven't granted us access to X", and restrict functionality until you do. E.g.: - Telegram permanently shows an in-app notification if you haven't granted access to all your contacts. - WhatsApp won't show nicknames in your conversation list or individual conversations if you haven't granted access to all your contacts (the nicknames are visible in some other screen, so this isn't a case of missing data). The user will get to decide, but the user won't get to decide _freely_. Some other annoyance will be introduced until you decide to grant all the access they demand.
- rsynnott 2y ago
  > Telegram permanently shows an in-app notification if you haven't granted access to all your contacts. > WhatsApp won't show nicknames in your conversation list or individual conversations if you haven't granted access to all your contacts Hrm, are you in the EU? I ask because neither appear to be the case for me, but I'm in the EU; the GDPR generally doesn't allow penalising the user for declining to consent to data collection (though compliance with this is patchy currently).
fastball 2y ago
I know that one of the few apps on my phone which doesn't use Apple's newer photo access API (which only shares the photos you pick with Apple by default) is not used by WhatsApp, even though it is available.
- cayleyh 2y ago
  Apps using either of these are just off-limits for me. There is a photo picker UI where the App gets NO permanent permissions and just gets the photo(s) you end up picking. Any non-camera / non-photo editing app should never need any permanent access to your library, restricted set or not.
  - fastball 2y ago
    Exactly. I actually checked, and there are three apps on my phone that don't support the "seamlessly pick a photo to use without granting extended access to some or all photos" API: WhatsApp, Instagram, and Telegram.
swatcoder 2y ago
Your messages and emails involve at least two parties. If the choice is between making it effectively impossible for you to give Meta all the messages and emails between us, and making it a trivial decision in a nagging popup, I'd prefer we keep it impossible. If there was infrastucture to support mutual consent, I'd be more inclined to buy into your premise. But that's not coming any time soon.

by n144q 2y ago

rtpg 2y ago

Yeah my guess here is that Meta wants WhatsApp to hook into the "native" phone calling system and messages etc. As someone who used to use a lot of third party apps for core functionality in Android, I ... like the idea of third party apps taking over some of this stuff. But I don't know if I want Meta to be the one to do it!

yalogin 2y ago

Letting the users decide is a sure way to lose the plot on data. There are always users that will want to give away their data and so services won’t have any incentive to build services that preserve privacy or attempt to reduce user data consumption. I would much rather be strict and let them not get any new data beyond what is already lost

threeseed 2y ago

You do realise that Facebook, Instagram, WhatsApp etc are thriving today without these permissions. And the problem with companies like Meta is that their terms of service are so complex and indecipherable that it’s almost a certainty you will approve giving them photos to share with friends and then turn around and use it for ads.

WhyNotHugo 2y ago

I wouldn't be surprised if applications permanently show a notification "you haven't granted us access to X", and restrict functionality until you do. E.g.: - Telegram permanently shows an in-app notification if you haven't granted access to all your contacts. - WhatsApp won't show nicknames in your conversation list or individual conversations if you haven't granted access to all your contacts (the nicknames are visible in some other screen, so this isn't a case of missing data). The user will get to decide, but the user won't get to decide _freely_. Some other annoyance will be introduced until you decide to grant all the access they demand.

rsynnott 2y ago
> Telegram permanently shows an in-app notification if you haven't granted access to all your contacts. > WhatsApp won't show nicknames in your conversation list or individual conversations if you haven't granted access to all your contacts Hrm, are you in the EU? I ask because neither appear to be the case for me, but I'm in the EU; the GDPR generally doesn't allow penalising the user for declining to consent to data collection (though compliance with this is patchy currently).

fastball 2y ago

I know that one of the few apps on my phone which doesn't use Apple's newer photo access API (which only shares the photos you pick with Apple by default) is not used by WhatsApp, even though it is available.

cayleyh 2y ago
Apps using either of these are just off-limits for me. There is a photo picker UI where the App gets NO permanent permissions and just gets the photo(s) you end up picking. Any non-camera / non-photo editing app should never need any permanent access to your library, restricted set or not.
- fastball 2y ago
  Exactly. I actually checked, and there are three apps on my phone that don't support the "seamlessly pick a photo to use without granting extended access to some or all photos" API: WhatsApp, Instagram, and Telegram.

swatcoder 2y ago

Your messages and emails involve at least two parties. If the choice is between making it effectively impossible for you to give Meta all the messages and emails between us, and making it a trivial decision in a nagging popup, I'd prefer we keep it impossible. If there was infrastucture to support mutual consent, I'd be more inclined to buy into your premise. But that's not coming any time soon.