4 ms·

This is the bit that I've always found confusing. When it comes to blue collar jobs, people in the upper echelons will gladly advocate the wonders of millions o

This is the bit that I've always found confusing. When it comes to blue collar jobs, people in the upper echelons will gladly advocate the wonders of millions of people entering the job market to compete with Americans. But as soon as it's their own market that introduces additional competition, they will advocate "just pay people more, the job seekers exist, just not at the wages employers are offering, this extra competition only depresses American wages". Which one is it? Is it "competition for other classes, no competition for my class please"?

macintux 2y ago
There are many, many blue collar jobs which Americans don’t want to do at the prevailing wages (or at all). Agriculture is a prime example of this. There are relatively few high skilled, high paying jobs which Americans don’t want to do.
- 8f2ab37a-ed6c 2y ago
  Again, why is the answer in agriculture to simply not increase wages? Someone’s willing to pick berries for $100/h I’m sure. Does it make berries unsustainable as a business? Likely, but isn’t that an argument for moving away from industries that can only survive on exploitation of undocumented third world labor?
  - JackYoustra 2y ago
    Ah, the argument is following it: the berries will still be picked in other countries for substantially lower wages and worse conditions than the wages or conditions (partially) of undocumented workers here. Even our worst jobs are substantially better (usually ~3x) than the average job of many countries, to say nothing about the huge gulf in security and institutions you get form living here.
    - 8f2ab37a-ed6c 2y ago
      That's also the argument that Bryan Caplan has been making for years in favor of open borders. I genuinely don't know what to make of it, I get the moral argument within it.
      - JackYoustra 2y ago
        Yes! what's the part you have trouble with?
- JSteph22 2y ago
  >at the prevailing wages... ...which are where they are in no small part due to decades of immigration policy.
- superq 2y ago
  It's basic economics: wages are low because cheaper labor is available. For instance, if working on an Alaskan fishing boat pays $2,000 a week, you might take the job despite harsh conditions. At $200 a week? Unlikely. But for someone from a less-developed country, $200 might feel like $2,000. Remove the supply of lower-cost workers, and the resulting labor shortage drives wages up, seeking equilibrium in the market.

macintux 2y ago

There are many, many blue collar jobs which Americans don’t want to do at the prevailing wages (or at all). Agriculture is a prime example of this. There are relatively few high skilled, high paying jobs which Americans don’t want to do.

8f2ab37a-ed6c 2y ago
Again, why is the answer in agriculture to simply not increase wages? Someone’s willing to pick berries for $100/h I’m sure. Does it make berries unsustainable as a business? Likely, but isn’t that an argument for moving away from industries that can only survive on exploitation of undocumented third world labor?
- JackYoustra 2y ago
  Ah, the argument is following it: the berries will still be picked in other countries for substantially lower wages and worse conditions than the wages or conditions (partially) of undocumented workers here. Even our worst jobs are substantially better (usually ~3x) than the average job of many countries, to say nothing about the huge gulf in security and institutions you get form living here.
  - 8f2ab37a-ed6c 2y ago
    That's also the argument that Bryan Caplan has been making for years in favor of open borders. I genuinely don't know what to make of it, I get the moral argument within it.
    - JackYoustra 2y ago
      Yes! what's the part you have trouble with?
JSteph22 2y ago
>at the prevailing wages... ...which are where they are in no small part due to decades of immigration policy.
superq 2y ago
It's basic economics: wages are low because cheaper labor is available. For instance, if working on an Alaskan fishing boat pays $2,000 a week, you might take the job despite harsh conditions. At $200 a week? Unlikely. But for someone from a less-developed country, $200 might feel like $2,000. Remove the supply of lower-cost workers, and the resulting labor shortage drives wages up, seeking equilibrium in the market.