6 ms·

Why does a mouse need an app, again?

by myself248 2y ago

dmonitor 2y ago
reprogrammable buttons, adjustable dpi, customizeable lights, etc
- Phlebsy 2y ago
  Personally, I can understand that for initial setup but hate that the way they're implemented means that it has to always be running, and it frequently has to be restarted to recognize the mouse correctly and apply those settings. Many keyboards have figured this out and don't require anything to be running to keep their settings across multiple devices so it feels like logitech will never improve in this area for the sake of keeping their bloat/spyware on your machine.
  - egypturnash 2y ago
    One big thing your keyboards probably aren't doing that mouse drivers are: different settings for different apps.
- m463 2y ago
  some mice can have the config saved onboard, then don't require a driver.
  - Brian_K_White 2y ago
    we need qmk for mice
    - bloopernova 2y ago
      The ploopy mouse has QMK. Layers on a mouse are very useful! https://ploopy.co/mouse/ https://ploopy.co/mouse/
      - Brian_K_White 2y ago
        nice
      - MoreMoore 2y ago
        This looks awesome. Now I just hope somebody will someday a 20 button version.
- eikenberry 2y ago
  All of those should be state changes in the mouse.. IE. the software should run to make the settings then exit. There should be no reason for it to keep running.
  - db48x 2y ago
    They are.
  - jsheard 2y ago
    Logitech's best kept secret is they do make a lightweight version of their software for exactly that, it edits the settings saved on the mouse and does absolutely nothing else. It's only available for Windows though. https://support.logi.com/hc/en-ca/articles/360059641133-Onboard-Memory-Manager https://support.logi.com/hc/en-ca/articles/360059641133-Onbo...
    - pxc 2y ago
      Logitech's mice can't do basic things like output a key chord upon a button press using only what's available onboard, sadly. The onboard capabilities are more limited than they have to be, probably to drive people to G-Hub.
    - bdavbdav 2y ago
      They also allow you to manage the pairing of the unifying receiver from web which is neat.
    - adzm 2y ago
      Wow, this is amazing!
  - MindSpunk 2y ago
    You don't need to keep it open, it just puts itself in the auto run list on install and you can disable it from launching. The configuration is just state changes on the mouse
  - RonaldDump 2y ago
    Their best feature - and the one thing that I have most missed for years after moving to Linux - is automatically changing the active mouse profile based on the focused application. It's so powerful. Any custom buttons for any program, without ever having to think about it. On Linux, without it, I'm stuck manually cycling through the 3 on-board profiles.
juancb 2y ago
Because there's a computer in your mouse and you need software on your host computer to talk to and peogram the mouse's computer. That of course would make it optional like with most programmable keyboards but then there's the need to manage pairing via their wireless dongles and then it quickly becomes necessary. Outside of it all being intentionally proprietary I don't see why they couldn't take an approach similar to VIA in managing their devices. There's also prior work for flashing microcontrollers from the web browser, I'm thinking of ESP32s specifically. https://www.caniusevia.com/ https://www.caniusevia.com/
- brokenmachine 2y ago
  Logitech devices are probably based on old code from older devices before WebUSB was a thing.
bayindirh 2y ago
To be able to program all the configurable buttons, and upload the macros and settings to the profiles present on the mouse itself, so you can use all the features of your mouse, tailored to you, even if you don’t have the software on the target device you’re using your mouse. Yes, Logitech’s high end mice store settings themselves. The app is just a programming interface. It sometimes does per program profile switch, too, IIRC.
- lsaferite 2y ago
  And yet, my keyboard can do almost (no per-program switching) all of the same FROM A WEB PAGE. WebHID should be all that's needed for advanced input devices. If you want some sort of per-program profile switching, sure, release a dedicated app that handles sending a special HID command sequence to trigger a profile switch.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - xboxnolifes 2y ago
    And if Logitech had a webpage to configure settings, HN would be up in arms about not being able to configure while offline.
    - Fnoord 2y ago
      Wooting has their utility offline and online. I guess it uses WebHID.
    - lsaferite 2y ago
      If the webpage was required to be connected back to Logitech to function, yeah, deservedly so. If, like Via, it can run fully offline then all you'd need is to save the page for offline use and that would be acceptable.
    - Scion9066 2y ago
      They do have a web page to do pairing at least: https://logiwebconnect.com/ https://logiwebconnect.com/
newsclues 2y ago
Exactly, the OS should have the functionality and UI.
bigstrat2003 2y ago
To be fair, it doesn't. I have Logitech mice and I have never once installed an app for them. They work great just with normal USB HID drivers.
happymellon 2y ago
To pair the mouse with the Universal Receiver/Bolt dongle rather than Bluetooth, and then to expose the other APIs such as battery levels.
dmd 2y ago
So your mouse driver can have AI in it, apparently. https://www.logitech.com/en-us/software/logi-ai-prompt-builder.html https://www.logitech.com/en-us/software/logi-ai-prompt-build...
- fwn 2y ago
  > So your mouse driver can have AI in it, apparently. Just to highlight: The offline installer (supposedly for business environments) does not include AI. It can be installed directly on top of the regular application. https://prosupport.logi.com/hc/en-us/articles/10991109278871-Logitech-Options-Offline-Installer https://prosupport.logi.com/hc/en-us/articles/10991109278871...
dghlsakjg 2y ago
It doesn't need the app. You can use their stuff without it. If you want to use some of their more advanced features, you need to use the app. For example, I have it setup so that if my macbook is on, I can push my cursor to the far left of my windows screen and my mouse will automatically switch to the macbook bringing along anything in the clipboard.
HeavyStorm 2y ago
My mouse have loads of features like programmable buttons. I don't think it should be memory resident - probably could work by opening, configuring, saving to firmware and shutting down, but at least its existence is justified. Wasn't it shit, I would be OK with it.

Why does a mouse need an app, again?

dmonitor 2y ago

reprogrammable buttons, adjustable dpi, customizeable lights, etc

Phlebsy 2y ago
Personally, I can understand that for initial setup but hate that the way they're implemented means that it has to always be running, and it frequently has to be restarted to recognize the mouse correctly and apply those settings. Many keyboards have figured this out and don't require anything to be running to keep their settings across multiple devices so it feels like logitech will never improve in this area for the sake of keeping their bloat/spyware on your machine.
- egypturnash 2y ago
  One big thing your keyboards probably aren't doing that mouse drivers are: different settings for different apps.
m463 2y ago
some mice can have the config saved onboard, then don't require a driver.
- Brian_K_White 2y ago
  we need qmk for mice
  - bloopernova 2y ago
    The ploopy mouse has QMK. Layers on a mouse are very useful! https://ploopy.co/mouse/ https://ploopy.co/mouse/
    - Brian_K_White 2y ago
      nice
    - MoreMoore 2y ago
      This looks awesome. Now I just hope somebody will someday a 20 button version.
eikenberry 2y ago
All of those should be state changes in the mouse.. IE. the software should run to make the settings then exit. There should be no reason for it to keep running.
- db48x 2y ago
  They are.
- jsheard 2y ago
  Logitech's best kept secret is they do make a lightweight version of their software for exactly that, it edits the settings saved on the mouse and does absolutely nothing else. It's only available for Windows though. https://support.logi.com/hc/en-ca/articles/360059641133-Onboard-Memory-Manager https://support.logi.com/hc/en-ca/articles/360059641133-Onbo...
  - pxc 2y ago
    Logitech's mice can't do basic things like output a key chord upon a button press using only what's available onboard, sadly. The onboard capabilities are more limited than they have to be, probably to drive people to G-Hub.
  - bdavbdav 2y ago
    They also allow you to manage the pairing of the unifying receiver from web which is neat.
  - adzm 2y ago
    Wow, this is amazing!
- MindSpunk 2y ago
  You don't need to keep it open, it just puts itself in the auto run list on install and you can disable it from launching. The configuration is just state changes on the mouse
- RonaldDump 2y ago
  Their best feature - and the one thing that I have most missed for years after moving to Linux - is automatically changing the active mouse profile based on the focused application. It's so powerful. Any custom buttons for any program, without ever having to think about it. On Linux, without it, I'm stuck manually cycling through the 3 on-board profiles.

juancb 2y ago

Because there's a computer in your mouse and you need software on your host computer to talk to and peogram the mouse's computer. That of course would make it optional like with most programmable keyboards but then there's the need to manage pairing via their wireless dongles and then it quickly becomes necessary. Outside of it all being intentionally proprietary I don't see why they couldn't take an approach similar to VIA in managing their devices. There's also prior work for flashing microcontrollers from the web browser, I'm thinking of ESP32s specifically. https://www.caniusevia.com/ https://www.caniusevia.com/

brokenmachine 2y ago
Logitech devices are probably based on old code from older devices before WebUSB was a thing.

bayindirh 2y ago

To be able to program all the configurable buttons, and upload the macros and settings to the profiles present on the mouse itself, so you can use all the features of your mouse, tailored to you, even if you don’t have the software on the target device you’re using your mouse. Yes, Logitech’s high end mice store settings themselves. The app is just a programming interface. It sometimes does per program profile switch, too, IIRC.

lsaferite 2y ago
And yet, my keyboard can do almost (no per-program switching) all of the same FROM A WEB PAGE. WebHID should be all that's needed for advanced input devices. If you want some sort of per-program profile switching, sure, release a dedicated app that handles sending a special HID command sequence to trigger a profile switch.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- xboxnolifes 2y ago
  And if Logitech had a webpage to configure settings, HN would be up in arms about not being able to configure while offline.
  - Fnoord 2y ago
    Wooting has their utility offline and online. I guess it uses WebHID.
  - lsaferite 2y ago
    If the webpage was required to be connected back to Logitech to function, yeah, deservedly so. If, like Via, it can run fully offline then all you'd need is to save the page for offline use and that would be acceptable.
  - Scion9066 2y ago
    They do have a web page to do pairing at least: https://logiwebconnect.com/ https://logiwebconnect.com/

newsclues 2y ago

Exactly, the OS should have the functionality and UI.

bigstrat2003 2y ago

To be fair, it doesn't. I have Logitech mice and I have never once installed an app for them. They work great just with normal USB HID drivers.

happymellon 2y ago

To pair the mouse with the Universal Receiver/Bolt dongle rather than Bluetooth, and then to expose the other APIs such as battery levels.

dmd 2y ago

So your mouse driver can have AI in it, apparently. https://www.logitech.com/en-us/software/logi-ai-prompt-builder.html https://www.logitech.com/en-us/software/logi-ai-prompt-build...

fwn 2y ago
> So your mouse driver can have AI in it, apparently. Just to highlight: The offline installer (supposedly for business environments) does not include AI. It can be installed directly on top of the regular application. https://prosupport.logi.com/hc/en-us/articles/10991109278871-Logitech-Options-Offline-Installer https://prosupport.logi.com/hc/en-us/articles/10991109278871...

dghlsakjg 2y ago

It doesn't need the app. You can use their stuff without it. If you want to use some of their more advanced features, you need to use the app. For example, I have it setup so that if my macbook is on, I can push my cursor to the far left of my windows screen and my mouse will automatically switch to the macbook bringing along anything in the clipboard.

HeavyStorm 2y ago

My mouse have loads of features like programmable buttons. I don't think it should be memory resident - probably could work by opening, configuring, saving to firmware and shutting down, but at least its existence is justified. Wasn't it shit, I would be OK with it.