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> The communist countries have some of the most polluted areas on the planet. They were not cooperating, my friend, they were manifesting a ruling class that w

> The communist countries have some of the most polluted areas on the planet. They were not cooperating, my friend, they were manifesting a ruling class that was above the law and pillaged the land for personal gain and sometimes even for the state. > Everybody is selfish. We are only as selfish as we choose to be, likewise our sense of ethics is only as developed as the virtues we embrace. Yes, we begin life selfish and most of our cultures are selfishly oriented towards others, but these are all the result of the citizens' choices. And, yes, our beliefs are chosen as well, and are as adaptable as we like. > The beauty of the free market is it enables selfish behavior to help others. I would say, rather, that the free market is good at letting people act selfishly, for either good or ill. That's why I like my capitalism with fetters, plenty of fetters. But, yeah, capitalism that doesn't destroy the powerless is the best path forward. > All attempts at creating selfless societies have resulted in misery and poverty. No, most humans that say they're creating selfless societies are really just grifters who want to be the new royalty. Selfishness always results in misery on some level, for some person or persons. We can develop systems that reward those who innovate and improve our life on Earth, without jeopardizing our environment and the peace among people. We could choose that, my friend. The problem is that most people don't care enough about others to be generous. We could each choose to learn how to be virtuous and then dedicate ourselves to helping implement a compassionate, sensible, and sustainable world society. All that's holding us back is our unwillingness to admit we each have the ability to be a part of the solution, as opposed to our currently sadass status quo.

WalterBright 2y ago
Name an unselfish person, and I'll show you a selfish person.
- bdangubic 2y ago
  Mother Theresa
  - WalterBright 2y ago
    Some quotes from the Wikipedia article on her https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mother_Teresa https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mother_Teresa > "I was to leave the convent and help the poor while living among them. It was an order. To fail would have been to break the faith." > Chatterjee criticized her for promoting a "cult of suffering" and a distorted, negative image of Calcutta, exaggerating work done by her mission and misusing funds and privileges at her disposal. > Bikash Ranjan Bhattacharya, mayor of Calcutta from 2005 to 2010, said that "she had no significant impact on the poor of this city", glorified illness instead of treating it and misrepresented the city: "No doubt there was poverty in Calcutta, but it was never a city of lepers and beggars, as Mother Teresa presented it." While I am not a confidante of hers (and neither are you) I expect her selfish reward was the satisfaction in her work, the gratitude of those she helped, and the approbation from others. Selfish desires are not only about money.
    - MrMcCall 2y ago
      Yeah, I don't think the reports about her after her death were kind to the Church's claims of her having had a loving nature. It's possible my father was an Altar Boy in Pennsylvania. Some real monsters found a place to stay in those Parishes. My theory is that that's why PA is the home of some of the best wrestlers in the world. PA's report on CC sexual abuse of children was, IIUC, 800 pages long. And, to keep those collection baskets full, they covered it all up. I like how Robin Wiliams said it, "It's not just a sin, it's a felony!" We must treasure all children, and protect them with the most stringent consequences for the monsters of this world.
- MrMcCall 2y ago
  We all start that way, but we are capable of self-evolving out of it, with dedication, honesty, study, and, most importantly, with the help of our Creator. And, yes, not very many people (less than 10% throughout history, IIUC) make the effort necessary to transmute any of their vices into virtues, but that doesn't mean it's not possible. What it means is that most people are a bunch of Dunning-Kruger low-achievers. The humble among us are the ones who can reach true-expert level on the paths we take in our life. Humility is essential to make progress as we must reach for a Power beyond ourselves to deal with our pathetic, selfish, weak-willed ego. Anything we are allowed to achieve only demonstrates our utter incapacity to make such progress on our own. "The Way goes in." --Rumi It awaits our connecting with It. Religion is always personal, between the person and our Creator, Maintainer, and eventual Destroyer. No one escapes the fact that we all draw a last breath. Just send a thankful, loving vibe out towards the universe's Creator, my accomplished friend. And then perhaps read some Castaneda; that sh_t's craaaaazy, but not completely untrue. The resistence inside of us is the enemy of our happiness. Castaneda is very clear about that in his 10th (IIRC) and final book. Not all aspects of our mind are "ours"; he calls it a "foreign installation". Peace be with you, Mr. Bright. It's an honor for me to serve you this way on this day.
  - WalterBright 2y ago
    Thank you for your kind words!
WalterBright 2y ago
> that the free market is good at letting people act selfishly, for either good or ill The free market relies on free exchange, which means each party to the deal is better off making the deal. Forcible or fraudulent exchanges are not part of the free market.
- MrMcCall 2y ago
  Truly, but kleptocracies do not have free markets, either, where the peasants are not better off for their 'betters' making such deals for the benefit of their cronies. William Gibson is, by far, my favorite author.
- FrustratedMonky 2y ago
  " fraudulent exchanges are not part of the free market." That is not true at all. Totally Free markets are 'buyer beware', If fraud can exist, then that is fine, you should have done your homework before buying a lemon. Each side is responsible for verification. Markets where fraud is caught and removed, have rules, and laws, regulations, enforcement. And thus many say are 'not free'. Add regulation and then people complain, "Why are you regulating me, I want my free market".
  - WalterBright 2y ago
    > That is not true at all. You can make up your own definitions, but the free market requires a government to protect rights. Defrauding people is stealing, not free market. You cannot have a free market when people are allowed to say "either your signature goes on the contract or your brains." Buyer beware is because the government cannot always protect people against fraud, no matter how much regulation and enforcement there is. Buyer beware also means people should read contracts before signing them. That's not fraud. A lot of people like to believe free market means no government, but that's simply not true. For another example, if someone sells you a jar marked "grape jelly" and you open it later and it's just water, you've been defrauded. This is a crime, not the fault of the buyer, and not free market.
    - 2y ago

WalterBright 2y ago

Name an unselfish person, and I'll show you a selfish person.

bdangubic 2y ago
Mother Theresa
- WalterBright 2y ago
  Some quotes from the Wikipedia article on her https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mother_Teresa https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mother_Teresa > "I was to leave the convent and help the poor while living among them. It was an order. To fail would have been to break the faith." > Chatterjee criticized her for promoting a "cult of suffering" and a distorted, negative image of Calcutta, exaggerating work done by her mission and misusing funds and privileges at her disposal. > Bikash Ranjan Bhattacharya, mayor of Calcutta from 2005 to 2010, said that "she had no significant impact on the poor of this city", glorified illness instead of treating it and misrepresented the city: "No doubt there was poverty in Calcutta, but it was never a city of lepers and beggars, as Mother Teresa presented it." While I am not a confidante of hers (and neither are you) I expect her selfish reward was the satisfaction in her work, the gratitude of those she helped, and the approbation from others. Selfish desires are not only about money.
  - MrMcCall 2y ago
    Yeah, I don't think the reports about her after her death were kind to the Church's claims of her having had a loving nature. It's possible my father was an Altar Boy in Pennsylvania. Some real monsters found a place to stay in those Parishes. My theory is that that's why PA is the home of some of the best wrestlers in the world. PA's report on CC sexual abuse of children was, IIUC, 800 pages long. And, to keep those collection baskets full, they covered it all up. I like how Robin Wiliams said it, "It's not just a sin, it's a felony!" We must treasure all children, and protect them with the most stringent consequences for the monsters of this world.
MrMcCall 2y ago
We all start that way, but we are capable of self-evolving out of it, with dedication, honesty, study, and, most importantly, with the help of our Creator. And, yes, not very many people (less than 10% throughout history, IIUC) make the effort necessary to transmute any of their vices into virtues, but that doesn't mean it's not possible. What it means is that most people are a bunch of Dunning-Kruger low-achievers. The humble among us are the ones who can reach true-expert level on the paths we take in our life. Humility is essential to make progress as we must reach for a Power beyond ourselves to deal with our pathetic, selfish, weak-willed ego. Anything we are allowed to achieve only demonstrates our utter incapacity to make such progress on our own. "The Way goes in." --Rumi It awaits our connecting with It. Religion is always personal, between the person and our Creator, Maintainer, and eventual Destroyer. No one escapes the fact that we all draw a last breath. Just send a thankful, loving vibe out towards the universe's Creator, my accomplished friend. And then perhaps read some Castaneda; that sh_t's craaaaazy, but not completely untrue. The resistence inside of us is the enemy of our happiness. Castaneda is very clear about that in his 10th (IIRC) and final book. Not all aspects of our mind are "ours"; he calls it a "foreign installation". Peace be with you, Mr. Bright. It's an honor for me to serve you this way on this day.
- WalterBright 2y ago
  Thank you for your kind words!

WalterBright 2y ago

> that the free market is good at letting people act selfishly, for either good or ill The free market relies on free exchange, which means each party to the deal is better off making the deal. Forcible or fraudulent exchanges are not part of the free market.

MrMcCall 2y ago
Truly, but kleptocracies do not have free markets, either, where the peasants are not better off for their 'betters' making such deals for the benefit of their cronies. William Gibson is, by far, my favorite author.
FrustratedMonky 2y ago
" fraudulent exchanges are not part of the free market." That is not true at all. Totally Free markets are 'buyer beware', If fraud can exist, then that is fine, you should have done your homework before buying a lemon. Each side is responsible for verification. Markets where fraud is caught and removed, have rules, and laws, regulations, enforcement. And thus many say are 'not free'. Add regulation and then people complain, "Why are you regulating me, I want my free market".
- WalterBright 2y ago
  > That is not true at all. You can make up your own definitions, but the free market requires a government to protect rights. Defrauding people is stealing, not free market. You cannot have a free market when people are allowed to say "either your signature goes on the contract or your brains." Buyer beware is because the government cannot always protect people against fraud, no matter how much regulation and enforcement there is. Buyer beware also means people should read contracts before signing them. That's not fraud. A lot of people like to believe free market means no government, but that's simply not true. For another example, if someone sells you a jar marked "grape jelly" and you open it later and it's just water, you've been defrauded. This is a crime, not the fault of the buyer, and not free market.
  - 2y ago