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I've been reading a lot about the early church for about a year and really enjoying it. I'm an atheist but I'm also a history nerd so it's been truly fascinatin

I've been reading a lot about the early church for about a year and really enjoying it. I'm an atheist but I'm also a history nerd so it's been truly fascinating. Here are some that I've enjoyed: - The Origin of Satan by Elaine Pagels; I read this one so casually that I don't have a good summary due to poor memory. - The Passover Plot by Hugh J Schonfield; author contends that Jesus believed that he was the prophesied Messiah and engineered his arrest and crucifixion out of sheer genius and clever actions. Fantastic read. - Jesus the Jew by Géza Vermes; author sees Jesus as a sincere apocalyptic preacher who believed he was the Messiah. - From Jesus to Christ by Paula Fredriksen; author looks at how Jesus went from the Jewish Messiah to the head of a major religion. - Becoming God by Bart Ehrman (you can find him doing interesting interviews or debates on YouTube); same as the one directly above. - The Jesus Puzzle by Earl Doherty; author contends that Jesus was not a historical figure, but rather another heavenly figure understood to have been crucified in the firmament between heaven and earth. I'm really impressed by the argument so far. I'm not quite finished with this one.

mistrial9 2y ago
Elaine Pagels is the one who got publication credit for the lost Gospels of Thomas.. that was discussed across the globe in literate circles. That book you mention by her is new to me (1995). The Origin of Satan: How Christians Demonized Jews, Pagans, and Heretics. New York: Vintage Books. ISBN 978-0-679-40140-7
- mistrial9 2y ago
  actually Elaine Pagels is currently writing a book called Miracles and Wonder: The Historical Mystery of Jesus (Hardcover) due April 2025
dmonitor 2y ago
> The Passover Plot by Hugh J Schonfield; author contends that Jesus believed that he was the prophesied Messiah and engineered his arrest and crucifixion out of sheer genius and clever actions. Fantastic read. Orchestrating the destruction of the Jewish temple (and thus most Jewish religious practices) at the hands of the Roman Empire after his own death would have been quite the feat
- NemoNobody 2y ago
  Last thing - the Jews revolted against Rome 3 times - they were spared twice and the third time Jews and Jerusalem ceased to exist bc they should not have done that.
NemoNobody 2y ago
That's exactly what Jesus did and every prophet that has been before him also. Each prophet sows the seeds for the next within their teachings - each prophet knows how their teachings will become perverted over time, each knows the end of the end of their religion before they start it but they start it anyways bc of the seeds - they can't unseen the fruits borne of them, to them it's plain how people areiving incorrectly and obvious as to what is important and why - it is up to each prophet to determine how to do this in their time and place, speaking to the hearts of the people at that time. Then they only must pull a Muadib to transform their society - only those with great conviction and faith can do it bc it's quite likely that after a point the prophet also believes themselves to be "real" (they always were of course - if not they would not have had the ears to hear the truth behind what the last prophet said) - A person playing prophet bc they have the ability to, believing that they are fact a prophet, and having true faith in what they teach - like John the Baptist, they will attain powers they had not - they will attain thru their faith alone not a divine intervention or blessing and not for certain reasons or with limit, it isn't necessary to need something to miracle it so, wanting alone is enough. All prophets faked it til they made it - every one of can do exactly as they have, it only requires right belief, that we can. Anyways I'm ranting what I should really just make into another Testament - it will be much, much shorter if I ever do.
- alsetmusic 2y ago
  > That's exactly what Jesus did and every prophet that has been before him also. I don't think Jesus thought of himself as a prophet. I think he believed he was the Messiah.

mistrial9 2y ago

Elaine Pagels is the one who got publication credit for the lost Gospels of Thomas.. that was discussed across the globe in literate circles. That book you mention by her is new to me (1995). The Origin of Satan: How Christians Demonized Jews, Pagans, and Heretics. New York: Vintage Books. ISBN 978-0-679-40140-7

mistrial9 2y ago
actually Elaine Pagels is currently writing a book called Miracles and Wonder: The Historical Mystery of Jesus (Hardcover) due April 2025

dmonitor 2y ago

> The Passover Plot by Hugh J Schonfield; author contends that Jesus believed that he was the prophesied Messiah and engineered his arrest and crucifixion out of sheer genius and clever actions. Fantastic read. Orchestrating the destruction of the Jewish temple (and thus most Jewish religious practices) at the hands of the Roman Empire after his own death would have been quite the feat

NemoNobody 2y ago
Last thing - the Jews revolted against Rome 3 times - they were spared twice and the third time Jews and Jerusalem ceased to exist bc they should not have done that.

NemoNobody 2y ago

That's exactly what Jesus did and every prophet that has been before him also. Each prophet sows the seeds for the next within their teachings - each prophet knows how their teachings will become perverted over time, each knows the end of the end of their religion before they start it but they start it anyways bc of the seeds - they can't unseen the fruits borne of them, to them it's plain how people areiving incorrectly and obvious as to what is important and why - it is up to each prophet to determine how to do this in their time and place, speaking to the hearts of the people at that time. Then they only must pull a Muadib to transform their society - only those with great conviction and faith can do it bc it's quite likely that after a point the prophet also believes themselves to be "real" (they always were of course - if not they would not have had the ears to hear the truth behind what the last prophet said) - A person playing prophet bc they have the ability to, believing that they are fact a prophet, and having true faith in what they teach - like John the Baptist, they will attain powers they had not - they will attain thru their faith alone not a divine intervention or blessing and not for certain reasons or with limit, it isn't necessary to need something to miracle it so, wanting alone is enough. All prophets faked it til they made it - every one of can do exactly as they have, it only requires right belief, that we can. Anyways I'm ranting what I should really just make into another Testament - it will be much, much shorter if I ever do.

alsetmusic 2y ago
> That's exactly what Jesus did and every prophet that has been before him also. I don't think Jesus thought of himself as a prophet. I think he believed he was the Messiah.