7 ms·

The US is only 4% of the world's population, so there's an enormous number of extremely smart people who live outside its present borders. I don't think anyone

The US is only 4% of the world's population, so there's an enormous number of extremely smart people who live outside its present borders. I don't think anyone believes that even the world's greatest educational system can bring all of its students up to an extremely high level of general intelligence. We should be letting very smart people born outside the US emigrate here, which is a win-win for everyone involved

remarkEon 2y ago
Sure. But the government of the United States is, allegedly, there for the benefit of its citizens. I'm not really following where this "should" comes from. "Should" in what volume? "Should" over what time frame?
- ThrowawayR2 2y ago
  If you don't think that having Linus Torvalds as a US citizen tremendously benefits the US public as a whole, enough to offset any imagined downsides of a great many merely average immigrating tech workers, there's nothing more to be said. And that's just him alone but he is merely one example of many other famous examples.
  - throwaway48476 2y ago
    Linus works from home, he could do that from anywhere.
    - defrost 2y ago
      Indeed. The benefit to the US if he is a citizen is that then his taxes flow to the US and if he's resident his local spending flows to the US economy and that of any geo immediate coworkers there for the face time.
      - throwaway48476 2y ago
        There is only one linus, and his personal economic impact is trivial compared to that of the linux project.
  - tester756 2y ago
    What would it give US if they had Linus as an citizen?
  - Terr_ 2y ago
    If you're gonna name famous people, there's already an O-1 visa program for that. https://www.uscis.gov/working-in-the-united-states/temporary-workers/o-1-visa-individuals-with-extraordinary-ability-or-achievement https://www.uscis.gov/working-in-the-united-states/temporary...
    - plynium 2y ago
      O-1 is a nonimmigrant visa. You can't receive green card and further citizenship with O-1.
  - remarkEon 2y ago
    I missed this comment, but what does Linus' citizenship status have to do with this? Surely you don't think that conferring a US Passport on Linus made him who he is. Not understanding what point you are making. Is it that any displacement of US citizens' employment via immigration of foreign tech workers is somehow neutered because Linus is really good at writing code and has a US Passport? Anyway, I thought he became a US citizen somewhat recently, well after the bulk of development of Linux. Wikipedia says 2010.
- throwaway48476 2y ago
  A national government functions as a labor union on a national scale.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- hash872 2y ago
  Letting in a lot of smart people benefits the citizens of the United States, that's why I said it's a win-win. Do you think we'd be better off if we excluded Musk to hire a native-born American instead in our aerospace industry? Just going back in time, do you think the US would be better off if we'd excluded Irish immigrants? Italians? Germans? If blocking immigration somehow benefits native-born citizens, you'd logically have to think our population should have stayed the same as it was when we broke away from Britain. We'd be about the size of say Colombia, maybe with a bit higher GPD
  - vkou 2y ago
    > Do you think we'd be better off if we excluded Musk to hire a native-born American instead in our aerospace industry? Given where he ended up, probably. Cheap rockets are nice, but speed-running a complete destruction of public trust, culture, and of any illusion that the country is one with rule of law for the benefit of a few insecure billionaire narcissists is a juice that wasn't worth the squeeze.
    - mlindner 2y ago
      Elon Musk is in fact incredibly popular, even if he is highly polarizing. His poll numbers are similar to Trumps and Trump won the national election.
      - vkou 2y ago
        Telling me that Musk is incredibly popular in Texas or Alabama is like me telling you that Putin is incredibly popular in Moscow. 'Strongmen' authoritarians peddling revanchist fantasies that'll make their country great again are often popular. Just because something is popular doesn't mean it's a net good. The man himself is an insecure narcissist who can't let any slight, real or imagined go unanswered. It would be sad and funny if he didn't own a speech platform, or hitch himself to an absolutely insane political movement.
        mlindner 2y ago
- christina97 2y ago
  I mean the US thinks of its place in the world as much more than the domestic insular affairs of its citizens. If you look at it from that angle it’s obvious that vacuuming up smart people and becoming “more powerful” intellectually is what the US clearly wants.
- throwaway173460 2y ago
  [flagged]
- gorbachev 2y ago
  Allegedly...by and large the US Government operates, however, for the benefit of corporations and rich folk (with some exceptions). If they want to hire foreign labor, the US Government is going to make it happen.
sebastianz 2y ago
> which is a win-win for everyone involved Well... not for everyone involved. It's definitely a "lose" for the countries they are leaving from, that educated them.

remarkEon 2y ago

Sure. But the government of the United States is, allegedly, there for the benefit of its citizens. I'm not really following where this "should" comes from. "Should" in what volume? "Should" over what time frame?

ThrowawayR2 2y ago
If you don't think that having Linus Torvalds as a US citizen tremendously benefits the US public as a whole, enough to offset any imagined downsides of a great many merely average immigrating tech workers, there's nothing more to be said. And that's just him alone but he is merely one example of many other famous examples.
- throwaway48476 2y ago
  Linus works from home, he could do that from anywhere.
  - defrost 2y ago
    Indeed. The benefit to the US if he is a citizen is that then his taxes flow to the US and if he's resident his local spending flows to the US economy and that of any geo immediate coworkers there for the face time.
    - throwaway48476 2y ago
      There is only one linus, and his personal economic impact is trivial compared to that of the linux project.
- tester756 2y ago
  What would it give US if they had Linus as an citizen?
- Terr_ 2y ago
  If you're gonna name famous people, there's already an O-1 visa program for that. https://www.uscis.gov/working-in-the-united-states/temporary-workers/o-1-visa-individuals-with-extraordinary-ability-or-achievement https://www.uscis.gov/working-in-the-united-states/temporary...
  - plynium 2y ago
    O-1 is a nonimmigrant visa. You can't receive green card and further citizenship with O-1.
- remarkEon 2y ago
  I missed this comment, but what does Linus' citizenship status have to do with this? Surely you don't think that conferring a US Passport on Linus made him who he is. Not understanding what point you are making. Is it that any displacement of US citizens' employment via immigration of foreign tech workers is somehow neutered because Linus is really good at writing code and has a US Passport? Anyway, I thought he became a US citizen somewhat recently, well after the bulk of development of Linux. Wikipedia says 2010.
throwaway48476 2y ago
A national government functions as a labor union on a national scale.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
hash872 2y ago
Letting in a lot of smart people benefits the citizens of the United States, that's why I said it's a win-win. Do you think we'd be better off if we excluded Musk to hire a native-born American instead in our aerospace industry? Just going back in time, do you think the US would be better off if we'd excluded Irish immigrants? Italians? Germans? If blocking immigration somehow benefits native-born citizens, you'd logically have to think our population should have stayed the same as it was when we broke away from Britain. We'd be about the size of say Colombia, maybe with a bit higher GPD
- vkou 2y ago
  > Do you think we'd be better off if we excluded Musk to hire a native-born American instead in our aerospace industry? Given where he ended up, probably. Cheap rockets are nice, but speed-running a complete destruction of public trust, culture, and of any illusion that the country is one with rule of law for the benefit of a few insecure billionaire narcissists is a juice that wasn't worth the squeeze.
  - mlindner 2y ago
    Elon Musk is in fact incredibly popular, even if he is highly polarizing. His poll numbers are similar to Trumps and Trump won the national election.
    - vkou 2y ago
      Telling me that Musk is incredibly popular in Texas or Alabama is like me telling you that Putin is incredibly popular in Moscow. 'Strongmen' authoritarians peddling revanchist fantasies that'll make their country great again are often popular. Just because something is popular doesn't mean it's a net good. The man himself is an insecure narcissist who can't let any slight, real or imagined go unanswered. It would be sad and funny if he didn't own a speech platform, or hitch himself to an absolutely insane political movement.
      - mlindner 2y ago
christina97 2y ago
I mean the US thinks of its place in the world as much more than the domestic insular affairs of its citizens. If you look at it from that angle it’s obvious that vacuuming up smart people and becoming “more powerful” intellectually is what the US clearly wants.
throwaway173460 2y ago
[flagged]
gorbachev 2y ago
Allegedly...by and large the US Government operates, however, for the benefit of corporations and rich folk (with some exceptions). If they want to hire foreign labor, the US Government is going to make it happen.

sebastianz 2y ago

> which is a win-win for everyone involved Well... not for everyone involved. It's definitely a "lose" for the countries they are leaving from, that educated them.