4 ms·

Where else are you going to learn that the system is your enemy and the people around you are your friends? I feel like that was a valuable thing to have learne

Where else are you going to learn that the system is your enemy and the people around you are your friends? I feel like that was a valuable thing to have learned and as a child I didn't really have anywhere else to learn it.

ghssds 2y ago
I actually learned that people around me are very much my enemies and the system don't care. Your school must have been tremendously good quality because I've felt isolated from school's day 1 and the feeling never went away forty years later.
- __MatrixMan__ 2y ago
  > Your school must have been tremendously good quality No, it was terrible, that's why I decided it was my enemy. And golly I think we knocked it down a peg or two by the time I was done there. But a few brilliant teachers managed to convince me not to hate the players, just the game.
- UltraSane 2y ago
  Ironically I had the exact same experience in school.
ben_w 2y ago
That wasn't my experience at school. I learned that people don't think the way I do, that my peers can include sadists, that adults can make mistakes or be arses and you can be powerless to change their minds. Which was valuable, but it wasn't telling me anything about "the system" being flawed (unless you count the fact it was a Catholic school and that I stopped being Christian while in that school as a result of reading the Bible), which I had to figure out gradually in adulthood.
- r00fus 2y ago
  I think there should be clarity on the differences between public and private schools. On one hand, funding for public schools precludes some activities and may result in a lower quality of education due to selection bias. On the other hand, private institutions play by their own rules and this can often result in even worse learning environments.
  - ben_w 2y ago
    I should probably add that this particular Catholic school was in the UK, and I was there between 1995 and 2000: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oaklands_Catholic_School https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oaklands_Catholic_School I don't know what the rules are in the UK (or what they were at the time), but we did get school inspectors visiting from time to time. I only thought to mention this at all because if you say "public school" in the UK you mean a school you have to pay a fee for, to contrast with "private tuition" (amongst other historical baggage): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_school_(United_Kingdom) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_school_(United_Kingdom)
PaulDavisThe1st 2y ago
> the system is your enemy and the people around you are your friends I am glad I did not attend your school. That lesson is far, far from universal.
- __MatrixMan__ 2y ago
  It's quite obvious that it's not universal, and that's a shame. If it were, we'd probably be more open to making changes to longstanding institutions which are no longer serving us.
  - PaulDavisThe1st 2y ago
    Have you considered the possibility that those close to you may not be your friends, and that the system is not actually usefully considered as your enemy?
    - __MatrixMan__ 2y ago
      Oh plenty of times, but the system repeatedly talks me out of it by treating humans like trash, and being a human myself, I have to pay attention to that sort of thing. Every time I think I have a real enemy among the people I interact with personally, I eventually come to understand that their problematic behavior is--if not justified--explainable. And once I have that explanation, it never seems like acting against them directly is likely to have any positive effect. If they're playing a role in which we're opposed, the solution is to find a way to rewrite the script such that we're not. That doesn't mean it's all sunshine and rainbows, conflict still happens, but I try not to let it be the kind of conflict that has been designed by some authority to keep me and my "enemy" busy such that we're too distracted with each other to reconsider the legitimacy of that authority--and I think that counts for quite a lot of conflict in the world, which is why I wish more people had come to this conclusion. I think the best place for learning this is a school, where the attempt to make you compete with your peers over "points," whatever those are, is so laughably transparent in its lack of regard for your wellbeing, and where the consequences of failing are so low. Meanwhile, quite a lot of fun and learning can happen because you're all stuck there anyway, might as well make the most of it. One must eventually confront authority somewhere, where else?
naming_the_user 2y ago
Shrug. My experience of school was the opposite - society at large is actually set up fairly well but pockets of it and the people in it are absolute dumpster fires.

ghssds 2y ago

I actually learned that people around me are very much my enemies and the system don't care. Your school must have been tremendously good quality because I've felt isolated from school's day 1 and the feeling never went away forty years later.

__MatrixMan__ 2y ago
> Your school must have been tremendously good quality No, it was terrible, that's why I decided it was my enemy. And golly I think we knocked it down a peg or two by the time I was done there. But a few brilliant teachers managed to convince me not to hate the players, just the game.
UltraSane 2y ago
Ironically I had the exact same experience in school.

ben_w 2y ago

That wasn't my experience at school. I learned that people don't think the way I do, that my peers can include sadists, that adults can make mistakes or be arses and you can be powerless to change their minds. Which was valuable, but it wasn't telling me anything about "the system" being flawed (unless you count the fact it was a Catholic school and that I stopped being Christian while in that school as a result of reading the Bible), which I had to figure out gradually in adulthood.

r00fus 2y ago
I think there should be clarity on the differences between public and private schools. On one hand, funding for public schools precludes some activities and may result in a lower quality of education due to selection bias. On the other hand, private institutions play by their own rules and this can often result in even worse learning environments.
- ben_w 2y ago
  I should probably add that this particular Catholic school was in the UK, and I was there between 1995 and 2000: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oaklands_Catholic_School https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oaklands_Catholic_School I don't know what the rules are in the UK (or what they were at the time), but we did get school inspectors visiting from time to time. I only thought to mention this at all because if you say "public school" in the UK you mean a school you have to pay a fee for, to contrast with "private tuition" (amongst other historical baggage): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_school_(United_Kingdom) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_school_(United_Kingdom)

PaulDavisThe1st 2y ago

> the system is your enemy and the people around you are your friends I am glad I did not attend your school. That lesson is far, far from universal.

__MatrixMan__ 2y ago
It's quite obvious that it's not universal, and that's a shame. If it were, we'd probably be more open to making changes to longstanding institutions which are no longer serving us.
- PaulDavisThe1st 2y ago
  Have you considered the possibility that those close to you may not be your friends, and that the system is not actually usefully considered as your enemy?
  - __MatrixMan__ 2y ago
    Oh plenty of times, but the system repeatedly talks me out of it by treating humans like trash, and being a human myself, I have to pay attention to that sort of thing. Every time I think I have a real enemy among the people I interact with personally, I eventually come to understand that their problematic behavior is--if not justified--explainable. And once I have that explanation, it never seems like acting against them directly is likely to have any positive effect. If they're playing a role in which we're opposed, the solution is to find a way to rewrite the script such that we're not. That doesn't mean it's all sunshine and rainbows, conflict still happens, but I try not to let it be the kind of conflict that has been designed by some authority to keep me and my "enemy" busy such that we're too distracted with each other to reconsider the legitimacy of that authority--and I think that counts for quite a lot of conflict in the world, which is why I wish more people had come to this conclusion. I think the best place for learning this is a school, where the attempt to make you compete with your peers over "points," whatever those are, is so laughably transparent in its lack of regard for your wellbeing, and where the consequences of failing are so low. Meanwhile, quite a lot of fun and learning can happen because you're all stuck there anyway, might as well make the most of it. One must eventually confront authority somewhere, where else?

naming_the_user 2y ago

Shrug. My experience of school was the opposite - society at large is actually set up fairly well but pockets of it and the people in it are absolute dumpster fires.