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> This was not a thing with Bootstrap, and it's not a thing with CSS variables and derived values. This is an organizational tool that increases in value as a m

> This was not a thing with Bootstrap, and it's not a thing with CSS variables and derived values. This is an organizational tool that increases in value as a multi-platform company grows. Perhaps I'm missing something, but Bootstrap does support this, doesn't it? https://getbootstrap.com/docs/5.2/customize/css-variables/ https://getbootstrap.com/docs/5.2/customize/css-variables/ Please explain why you feel this usecase hasn't already been supported for years. Also, other tools such as sass also support this feature. https://sass-lang.com/documentation/variables/ https://sass-lang.com/documentation/variables/ Can you elaborate why you think this problem isn't a solved problem?

have_faith 2y ago
The point of design tokens is that they sit above your framework and library choices, so it's not possible for bootstrap to solve this as it's a down-stream library. Bootstrap is a consumer of design tokens in that they might be fed into bootstraps css variable system. But in a design token system you wouldn't use bootstrap as a source of truth for these tokens, you want something more flexible and programatically portable than CSS.
kaelig 2y ago
Bootstrap and Sass are for the web. They don't solve the interop problem for Figma/Sketch/Framer/iOS/macOS/Windows/Android/TVs/Watches/Fridges/Cars and what have you. And that's not even accounting for web styling solutions that don't use CSS variables.
- motorest 2y ago
  > Bootstrap and Sass are for the web. Cool, so we establish that the likes of Bootstrap and Sass already solve this problem for the web. > They don't solve the interop problem for Figma/Sketch/Framer That's irrelevant, isn't it? I mean, do you run apps straight out of Sigma/Sketch/Framer? Do you also think it's reasonable to call out Photoshop/Gimp/MSPaint? > iOS/macOS/Windows/Android/TVs/Watches/Fridges/Cars You're trying to refer to platforms/OSes, aren't you? Do you think it makes any sense to bundle everything together? Those who work on iOS/macOS/Windows/Android/TVs/Watches/Fridges/Cars would certainly look at you perplexed just for suggesting that specifying color schemes even registers as a concern in the whole cross-platform discussion. >
  - kaelig 2y ago
    > Bootstrap and Sass already solve this problem for the web. In a vacuum, sure. But products aren't all built in a web-centric vacuum. > That's irrelevant, isn't it? I mean, do you run apps straight out of Sigma/Sketch/Framer? Do you also think it's reasonable to call out Photoshop/Gimp/MSPaint? Figma/Sketch/Framer are design and prototyping tools. They are _very_ relevant in how we build products. The back-and-forth between design and engineering leads to better outcomes if both sides speak the same language, and their tools allow them to do so. (Photoshop/Gimp/MSPaint aren't so relevant un product design) > Do you think it makes any sense to bundle everything together? Not everything. You generally want folks using your products across iOS, their car, their TV, and a web browser have a coherent experience. This doesn't mean that everything needs to look exactly the same. It means that key design decisions can be distributed across the board.

have_faith 2y ago

The point of design tokens is that they sit above your framework and library choices, so it's not possible for bootstrap to solve this as it's a down-stream library. Bootstrap is a consumer of design tokens in that they might be fed into bootstraps css variable system. But in a design token system you wouldn't use bootstrap as a source of truth for these tokens, you want something more flexible and programatically portable than CSS.

kaelig 2y ago

Bootstrap and Sass are for the web. They don't solve the interop problem for Figma/Sketch/Framer/iOS/macOS/Windows/Android/TVs/Watches/Fridges/Cars and what have you. And that's not even accounting for web styling solutions that don't use CSS variables.

motorest 2y ago
> Bootstrap and Sass are for the web. Cool, so we establish that the likes of Bootstrap and Sass already solve this problem for the web. > They don't solve the interop problem for Figma/Sketch/Framer That's irrelevant, isn't it? I mean, do you run apps straight out of Sigma/Sketch/Framer? Do you also think it's reasonable to call out Photoshop/Gimp/MSPaint? > iOS/macOS/Windows/Android/TVs/Watches/Fridges/Cars You're trying to refer to platforms/OSes, aren't you? Do you think it makes any sense to bundle everything together? Those who work on iOS/macOS/Windows/Android/TVs/Watches/Fridges/Cars would certainly look at you perplexed just for suggesting that specifying color schemes even registers as a concern in the whole cross-platform discussion. >
- kaelig 2y ago
  > Bootstrap and Sass already solve this problem for the web. In a vacuum, sure. But products aren't all built in a web-centric vacuum. > That's irrelevant, isn't it? I mean, do you run apps straight out of Sigma/Sketch/Framer? Do you also think it's reasonable to call out Photoshop/Gimp/MSPaint? Figma/Sketch/Framer are design and prototyping tools. They are _very_ relevant in how we build products. The back-and-forth between design and engineering leads to better outcomes if both sides speak the same language, and their tools allow them to do so. (Photoshop/Gimp/MSPaint aren't so relevant un product design) > Do you think it makes any sense to bundle everything together? Not everything. You generally want folks using your products across iOS, their car, their TV, and a web browser have a coherent experience. This doesn't mean that everything needs to look exactly the same. It means that key design decisions can be distributed across the board.