4 ms·

I don’t think you’ve thought through the downside risk. A coworker - himself of my ethnicity - assumed I was foreign born, I’m not going to leave it to chance w

I don’t think you’ve thought through the downside risk. A coworker - himself of my ethnicity - assumed I was foreign born, I’m not going to leave it to chance when the promised deportation dragnet starts up.

alephnerd 2y ago
I'd recommend carrying a passport card instead of the actual passport. A REAL ID would be helpful as well. I don't think the chances of something that drastic are high, but it doesn't hurt to err on the side of caution.
- laidoffamazon 2y ago
  Problem with the passport card is it requires me to send my existing passport for several weeks. In the event of a government shutdown I'd be SOL. REAL ID is plausible but I don't really trust it, given that illegal immigrants can get identity cards in my state.
  - alephnerd 2y ago
    > I don't really trust it REAL ID is a bare minimum. It shows that you at least have legal residency. FWIW it's trusted by DHS so that's all that matters for your usecase or assumption. If you are worried about the risk of being hauled by ICE, then you should get a REAL ID. > it requires me to send my existing passport for several weeks Last I remember, you can do it in person. Here are the passport offices - https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/passports/get-fast/passport-agencies.html#Map%20of%20Passport%20Office%20Locations https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/passports/get-fas... > In the event of a government shutdown The US Passport Office remains open during the commonly termed "government shutdowns"
    - int_19h 2y ago
      If it's the same process as getting a passport in the first place, you have to give them the documentation proving that you're a citizen, and they sit in it for a while before eventually mailing it back to you.
bikenaga 2y ago
Your concern is reasonable, and I've thought about it myself. The Wikipedia article linked downthread by int_19h notes: "Up to one percent of all those detained in immigration detention centers are nationals of the United States according to research by Jacqueline Stevens, a professor of political science at Northwestern University." There are specific cases mentioned in the article, and the case of Mark Daniel Lyttle was pretty alarming. It was written up in: https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2013/04/29/the-deportation-machine https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2013/04/29/the-deportatio... On the other hand, you can't be detained without probable cause, and race/ethnicity alone isn't enough. For instance, the Supreme Court ruled in United States v. Brignoni-Ponce (https://case.law/caselaw/?reporter=us&volume=422&case=0873-01 https://case.law/caselaw/?reporter=us&volume=422&case=0873-0...): "In this case the officers relied on a single factor to justify stopping respondent’s car: the apparent Mexican ancestry of the occupants. We cannot conclude that this furnished reasonable grounds to believe that the three occupants were aliens. At best the officers had only a fleeting glimpse of the persons in the moving car, illuminated by headlights. Even if they saw enough to think that the occupants were of Mexican descent, this factor alone would justify neither a reasonable belief that they were aliens, nor a reasonable belief that the car concealed other aliens who were illegally in the country. Large numbers of native-born and naturalized citizens have the physical characteristics identified with Mexican ancestry, and even in the border area a relatively small proportion of them are aliens. The likelihood that any given person of Mexican ancestry is an alien is high enough to make Mexican appearance a relevant factor, but standing alone it does not justify stopping all Mexican-Americans to ask if they are aliens." I second the recommendation to get a RealID. You're going to need one eventually for domestic flights, among other things. When I got mine at the DMV renewing my driver's license, they asked for a birth certificate, social security card, driver's license, and proof of (local) residency (e.g. utility bill). So why not get one and carry that as additional proof?
M3L0NM4N 2y ago
> deportation dragnet Do you know how insane that sounds in this context? I absolutely despise Trump, make no mistake; but if you think Trump is rounding up any of the 40+% of the USA's non-white citizens and deporting them, you have been deluded by widespread FUD. The "deportation dragnet" might apply to illegals, sure. Will any meaningful amount of US citizens get scooped up in that, if any? Highly, highly unlikely. You're probably more likely to be murdered.
- laidoffamazon 2y ago
  All evidence points to first week being dedicated to flashy arrests in blue states with Tom Homan previously bragging that they would deport both illegals and their citizen family members with no regard for the obvious illegality of the concept.
  - M3L0NM4N 2y ago
    I think he poorly phrased deporting "anchor babies" by ending birthright citizenship. Since then, he's directly or indirectly claimed multiple times that he doesn't plan on deporting USCs. There's no telling whether he wants to deport USCs deep down in his heart, but he knows that's not going to happen. https://www.newsweek.com/tom-homan-family-deportation-undocumented-migrants-1988746 https://www.newsweek.com/tom-homan-family-deportation-undocu...
    - selimthegrim 2y ago
      Wait until Stephen Miller gets the denaturalization squad back
bdangubic 2y ago
more people will become billionaires in the next four years than get deported :)
- laidoffamazon 2y ago
  A useless statement because I'm much closer to an legal-to-become-illegal than a multi-millionaire-to-become-billionaire
  - bdangubic 2y ago
    I wasn't talking specifically about you... there are campaign promises "we are going to deport _____ people" that you should know by now are just shit politicians say so that they get the votes in South Dakota, Alabama and shithole places like that. We heard in 2016 "build the wall, repeal ACA, lock her up..." and whatever BS was spewing at that time. the only policy that you know for sure will be in place for the next 2 to 4 years will be there to make sure that richer get richer - hence my statement that we'll see more people become billionaires than people that we will actually deport :)

alephnerd 2y ago

I'd recommend carrying a passport card instead of the actual passport. A REAL ID would be helpful as well. I don't think the chances of something that drastic are high, but it doesn't hurt to err on the side of caution.

laidoffamazon 2y ago
Problem with the passport card is it requires me to send my existing passport for several weeks. In the event of a government shutdown I'd be SOL. REAL ID is plausible but I don't really trust it, given that illegal immigrants can get identity cards in my state.
- alephnerd 2y ago
  > I don't really trust it REAL ID is a bare minimum. It shows that you at least have legal residency. FWIW it's trusted by DHS so that's all that matters for your usecase or assumption. If you are worried about the risk of being hauled by ICE, then you should get a REAL ID. > it requires me to send my existing passport for several weeks Last I remember, you can do it in person. Here are the passport offices - https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/passports/get-fast/passport-agencies.html#Map%20of%20Passport%20Office%20Locations https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/passports/get-fas... > In the event of a government shutdown The US Passport Office remains open during the commonly termed "government shutdowns"
  - int_19h 2y ago
    If it's the same process as getting a passport in the first place, you have to give them the documentation proving that you're a citizen, and they sit in it for a while before eventually mailing it back to you.

bikenaga 2y ago

Your concern is reasonable, and I've thought about it myself. The Wikipedia article linked downthread by int_19h notes: "Up to one percent of all those detained in immigration detention centers are nationals of the United States according to research by Jacqueline Stevens, a professor of political science at Northwestern University." There are specific cases mentioned in the article, and the case of Mark Daniel Lyttle was pretty alarming. It was written up in: https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2013/04/29/the-deportation-machine https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2013/04/29/the-deportatio... On the other hand, you can't be detained without probable cause, and race/ethnicity alone isn't enough. For instance, the Supreme Court ruled in United States v. Brignoni-Ponce (https://case.law/caselaw/?reporter=us&volume=422&case=0873-01 https://case.law/caselaw/?reporter=us&volume=422&case=0873-0...): "In this case the officers relied on a single factor to justify stopping respondent’s car: the apparent Mexican ancestry of the occupants. We cannot conclude that this furnished reasonable grounds to believe that the three occupants were aliens. At best the officers had only a fleeting glimpse of the persons in the moving car, illuminated by headlights. Even if they saw enough to think that the occupants were of Mexican descent, this factor alone would justify neither a reasonable belief that they were aliens, nor a reasonable belief that the car concealed other aliens who were illegally in the country. Large numbers of native-born and naturalized citizens have the physical characteristics identified with Mexican ancestry, and even in the border area a relatively small proportion of them are aliens. The likelihood that any given person of Mexican ancestry is an alien is high enough to make Mexican appearance a relevant factor, but standing alone it does not justify stopping all Mexican-Americans to ask if they are aliens." I second the recommendation to get a RealID. You're going to need one eventually for domestic flights, among other things. When I got mine at the DMV renewing my driver's license, they asked for a birth certificate, social security card, driver's license, and proof of (local) residency (e.g. utility bill). So why not get one and carry that as additional proof?

M3L0NM4N 2y ago

> deportation dragnet Do you know how insane that sounds in this context? I absolutely despise Trump, make no mistake; but if you think Trump is rounding up any of the 40+% of the USA's non-white citizens and deporting them, you have been deluded by widespread FUD. The "deportation dragnet" might apply to illegals, sure. Will any meaningful amount of US citizens get scooped up in that, if any? Highly, highly unlikely. You're probably more likely to be murdered.

laidoffamazon 2y ago
All evidence points to first week being dedicated to flashy arrests in blue states with Tom Homan previously bragging that they would deport both illegals and their citizen family members with no regard for the obvious illegality of the concept.
- M3L0NM4N 2y ago
  I think he poorly phrased deporting "anchor babies" by ending birthright citizenship. Since then, he's directly or indirectly claimed multiple times that he doesn't plan on deporting USCs. There's no telling whether he wants to deport USCs deep down in his heart, but he knows that's not going to happen. https://www.newsweek.com/tom-homan-family-deportation-undocumented-migrants-1988746 https://www.newsweek.com/tom-homan-family-deportation-undocu...
  - selimthegrim 2y ago
    Wait until Stephen Miller gets the denaturalization squad back

bdangubic 2y ago

more people will become billionaires in the next four years than get deported :)

laidoffamazon 2y ago
A useless statement because I'm much closer to an legal-to-become-illegal than a multi-millionaire-to-become-billionaire
- bdangubic 2y ago
  I wasn't talking specifically about you... there are campaign promises "we are going to deport _____ people" that you should know by now are just shit politicians say so that they get the votes in South Dakota, Alabama and shithole places like that. We heard in 2016 "build the wall, repeal ACA, lock her up..." and whatever BS was spewing at that time. the only policy that you know for sure will be in place for the next 2 to 4 years will be there to make sure that richer get richer - hence my statement that we'll see more people become billionaires than people that we will actually deport :)