6 ms·

Ouya Approaches $5 Million In Backing, Attracts 5x Goal (So Far)

45 points by lordpenguin 14y ago

FreeKill 14y ago
Whatever you think of the console itself, that's an impressive amount of fundraising. I think Ouya has shown one thing for sure and that's making your Kickstarter a pre-order of sorts definitely encourages people to donate in larger sums. Of the 36K backers, only ~2000 have donated less than the $95 that gets you a console.
- lordpenguin 14y ago
  Yes, you are right. Even backing at the $99 level gets you the $99 console! THAT is value.
- hkmurakami 14y ago
  I personally think that this is the greatest value that kickstarter has brought us. We now have the option to forego the traditional cycle of [product development -> promotion -> sales] and instead pursue a [promotion -> sales -> development] path, which reduces the risk of irrecoverable sunk costs significantly. In a way, it shifts "risk" from the producer to the consumer.
  - chucknelson 14y ago
    It's also one of the worst things about kickstarter. The risk is moved to us, the consumer, and if it falls through, kickstarter isn't doing anything about it. We've basically funded some employee salaries, etc. with nothing to show for it. I do think kickstarter is great, though.
    - hkmurakami 14y ago
      Definitely agree that said risk is the big question mark about the whole platform. Do you think that perhaps a few future scandals at Kickstarter would spur a "staged release" of funds to the project? (somewhat like how Greece receives its bailout funds in successive packages upon hitting milestones, rather than in one lump sum)
    - FreeKill 14y ago
      Very true. I do think in some circumstances it's valid for the consumer to take on the risk. There are a lot of fan projects out there where, from a profit perspective, it just doesn't make sense for a large backer to take a risk bringing it to market. However, if fan interest is high enough and potential customers are willing to put their money where their mouth is, so to speak, it's an interesting option. I'd personally love to see Kickstarter take it a step further and offer incentives where the backers can become more like Angel investors, but I'm sure there are a lot of difficulties involved in that...
      - Terretta 14y ago
        Kickstarter is perfect for products that fall into the "disposable income" budget. They're perfecting the definition of "disposable", with products that fall into a range of "If this turns out, I'll be in on it, if it doesn't, I'm out x-hundred bucks, so what?".
    - rhinosix 14y ago
      One of the flaws Kickstarter projects is they have very limited testing phases. Projects start with an almost-ready prototype which just needs a few touches before it goes into production. But in those final stages, like with anything, there are unforeseen obstacles and problems that come up. Backers have been given a release date, they've paid their money, and product development is very public. After a product has "finished" development it needs lengthy and rigorous testing, rethinking and redevelopment. Large numbers of users are very quick at finding bugs the devs never noticed. Sometimes products just aren't ready to be released - they need more time and money put into them. Private companies have the advantage of being able to push back release dates, or cancelling the project without ever announcing it to the public. A lot of Kickstarter comments are from people who paid X dollars, the release date has passed, and they want their product NOW. Or they've received their product, but it has some kind of flaw. If I was going to back a project I wouldn't do it with the intention of pre-ordering a working product. I would pay as much as I was willing to lose on a project I believe in - I see myself more as a supporter and beta-tester to get the product to where it needs to be. Maybe Kickstarter projects could elect to add a testing phase? A dev could ask for initial funding to produce a limited number of beta products, which would be sent out to selected testers who use the product, submit issues, and give feedback. After the bugs are worked out the product goes into full production. It could involve the community more in the development process, shift the expectation of receiving a perfectly working product, and improve the quality of the product.
    - mkaltenecker 14y ago
      What’s wrong with that if you know beforehand? Not everything will be on Kickstarter. This is not a systematic push to move responsibility to the customers. It’s just a fun distraction.
- makmanalp 14y ago
  Isn't that technically illegal since it's considered selling?
StavrosK 14y ago
Can someone explain how this is different from any other Android thing? Is it not the same thing as my phone/tablet hooked up to the TV with a Bluetooth gamepad?
- cryptoz 14y ago
  > phone/tablet Please let us know where you're buying a gaming-quality $100 phone or tablet from!
  - StavrosK 14y ago
    It actually cost $0, as I already have one of each. Are you saying that none of the OUYA backers has an Android phone or tablet?
    - flexd 14y ago
      Are you easily able to connect your mobile phone to your TV? And does anyone even make games for phones that would benefit from being on a TV? I think OUYA could change how the platform gaming landscape looks like, and it certainly won't hurt for more competition to enter that market, hopefully putting some pressure on the existing companies.
      - StavrosK 14y ago
        > Are you easily able to connect your mobile phone to your TV? Yeah, the phone has an HDMI output. So does the tablet. > And does anyone even make games for phones that would benefit from being on a TV? Are OUYA making games? I'm genuinely asking, I'm not sure why people get so indignant about my question.
        flexd 14y ago
        Do that many phones really have HDMI output? Mine does not as far as I know. My point is that with the current games on phones, I do not feel any of those would directly benefit from being on a TV. Angry Birds wouldn't suddenly get more fun just because it's on a big screen. A open console that's easily to hack on, be it software- or hardware-wise, would only be a good thing. And judging by the insane amount of money that has been pledged in this short time there is also a good market for one.¨ I think the OUYA will be a good thing, and the main benefit over just connecting your phone to the TV is that the console is created for being connected to a TV. The games are created for being on a TV, which changes the genre of games from Angry Birds style phone games to games like Quake or whatever else you might usually play on a console. That's sort of what I was trying to say with my previous questions, you might be able to connect your phone to the TV and have a equally good device, but the market and community the OUYA will create is what makes it valuable to me. There is no company that will make a videogame that suits the TV on the off-chance that you connect your mobile phone to one. :/
sneak 14y ago
I just hope I can get my product prototype to a meaningful place in time before a bunch of people collectively realize that most people selling shit on Kickstarter have no idea what they're doing and stop throwing money at these. The race is on!
naner 14y ago
If they take the $5mil and are unable to deliver, that might be the beginning of the end of crowdfunding.
- SteveJS 14y ago
  Will anybody even agree on what successful delivery looks like?
  - objclxt 14y ago
    What is a successful delivery? I guess that depends. I would say a successful delivery is releasing the product. Given they've got a very aggresive schedule and are promising delivery for September 2012, I'd say a successful delivery would be getting the product out to backers before the end of the year (ie, the holidays). I do think they are setting themselves up for some serious pain - it's very difficult to turn down money. I think originally Ouya had a 5,000 limit on the $99 reward. Now they are offering 80,000, and the estimated delivery date hasn't changed. If their delivery was to slip (not all that surprising) the number of vocal angry customers who maybe don't fully understand the nature of Kickstarter funding is going to be much greater. Good luck to them - but it's important to go into this sort of thing with some sense of proportion. Even the best intended and funded projects can and do go a bit awry on the way to delivery. Just look at the team behind Ouya - their designer, Yves Behar, is a talented man, but two of his most well known projects (OLPC and the Jawbone Up) had significant delivery issues.
    - jsnell 14y ago
      The hardware isn't targeted at September 2012 but March 2013.
- nimblegorilla 14y ago
  If they don't deliver hopefully it will just open up new ways of vetting projects that raise six-figures or more. If they do deliver will that finally be enough to silence the crowdfunding naysayers?
jluxenberg 14y ago
From the founder's description of the console: "Let’s open this sucker up!...We’re handing the reins over to the developer with only one condition: at least some gameplay has to be free." They aim to produce an open platform for TV gaming that puts requirements on how games are distributed. What?! Doesn't sound "free" to me.
- Fargren 14y ago
  Free as in beer.
- aggronn 14y ago
  Well then, not when you put it that way.
- veridies 14y ago
  They're okay with a demo (as they say in the Kickstarter FAQ) and you can sideload apps. That's not anti-freedom.
- trotsky 14y ago
  we could use a term like green washing these days, for this kind of thing and the dual license hucksters
alttab 14y ago
I cannot fucking wait for this.
akshat 14y ago
This page is clearly blog spam. How did it land up on HN?
polshaw 14y ago
I really don't get the level of enthusiasm for this device, and struggle to see it really taking off mainstream (which may not matter, since it's just an android box). Yes, we haven't seen an android device targeted for gaming yet, but AFAICT, there is nothing this will do that you can't already do with something like an mk802[0]. Similarly, decent tablets can be had for $100[1]. Now, both of these have slower GPUs (mali 400, as SGS2), but come 9 months when this is actually meant to be available, i'm certain there will be better-than tegra3 hardware available in that price range. Further, most people could just connect their phone via hdmi and a PS3 controller to get the same result. Another angle of looking at it could be as reference hardware, like a nexus device for gaming. That would have advantages.. (better dev support etc etc) but its userbase is going to be a drop in the ocean compared to other android devices- take the SGS3 for example-- 9m pre-orders. This is currently at 0.05m.[2] I do wish these guys luck however.The fundraising is impressive however you look at it. I do see ARM devices taking over a large chunk of the conosle space[3], and i do see a mobile OS involved. A greater degree of freedom than the big boys (although not than android) is welcome, as is the competition. I really hope we get some quality in-room multiplayer back-- and this could help to spur that-- which hasn't been a first class citizen since way back in the n64 days(!). But there is no guarantee that anything will change. Ultimately, the success of the fundraising could be its own downfall, attracting google/apple/microsoft to compete. We all know how much they want presence in the living room. OUYA's interface is more suited for a game pad, but it's nothing that couldn't be matched with an app, or an android update. -- 0. $74 USB-stick PC. 1. I would post retail links but i don't want to come accross advertising. Check out cnx-software.com or armdevices.net if you wish to learn more. 2. based on a lazy $5m/$100. Extrapolate linearly over the 30 days and you still only have 0.3m.. a case which would smash all kickstarter funding into oblivion. People buying this would be expected to buy more games.. but we are looking a 30:1 ratio to match the big boys in the most optimistic case. 3. IMO the days of the monolithic console are numbered- mobile OS's have made gaming on an upgradeable platform as simple as the consoles, which will be soon out-dated by the relentless pace of progress in the ARM/mobile GPU world.

45 points by lordpenguin 14y ago

Whatever you think of the console itself, that's an impressive amount of fundraising. I think Ouya has shown one thing for sure and that's making your Kickstarter a pre-order of sorts definitely encourages people to donate in larger sums. Of the 36K backers, only ~2000 have donated less than the $95 that gets you a console.

lordpenguin 14y ago
Yes, you are right. Even backing at the $99 level gets you the $99 console! THAT is value.
hkmurakami 14y ago
I personally think that this is the greatest value that kickstarter has brought us. We now have the option to forego the traditional cycle of [product development -> promotion -> sales] and instead pursue a [promotion -> sales -> development] path, which reduces the risk of irrecoverable sunk costs significantly. In a way, it shifts "risk" from the producer to the consumer.
- chucknelson 14y ago
  It's also one of the worst things about kickstarter. The risk is moved to us, the consumer, and if it falls through, kickstarter isn't doing anything about it. We've basically funded some employee salaries, etc. with nothing to show for it. I do think kickstarter is great, though.
  - hkmurakami 14y ago
    Definitely agree that said risk is the big question mark about the whole platform. Do you think that perhaps a few future scandals at Kickstarter would spur a "staged release" of funds to the project? (somewhat like how Greece receives its bailout funds in successive packages upon hitting milestones, rather than in one lump sum)
  - FreeKill 14y ago
    Very true. I do think in some circumstances it's valid for the consumer to take on the risk. There are a lot of fan projects out there where, from a profit perspective, it just doesn't make sense for a large backer to take a risk bringing it to market. However, if fan interest is high enough and potential customers are willing to put their money where their mouth is, so to speak, it's an interesting option. I'd personally love to see Kickstarter take it a step further and offer incentives where the backers can become more like Angel investors, but I'm sure there are a lot of difficulties involved in that...
    - Terretta 14y ago
      Kickstarter is perfect for products that fall into the "disposable income" budget. They're perfecting the definition of "disposable", with products that fall into a range of "If this turns out, I'll be in on it, if it doesn't, I'm out x-hundred bucks, so what?".
  - rhinosix 14y ago
    One of the flaws Kickstarter projects is they have very limited testing phases. Projects start with an almost-ready prototype which just needs a few touches before it goes into production. But in those final stages, like with anything, there are unforeseen obstacles and problems that come up. Backers have been given a release date, they've paid their money, and product development is very public. After a product has "finished" development it needs lengthy and rigorous testing, rethinking and redevelopment. Large numbers of users are very quick at finding bugs the devs never noticed. Sometimes products just aren't ready to be released - they need more time and money put into them. Private companies have the advantage of being able to push back release dates, or cancelling the project without ever announcing it to the public. A lot of Kickstarter comments are from people who paid X dollars, the release date has passed, and they want their product NOW. Or they've received their product, but it has some kind of flaw. If I was going to back a project I wouldn't do it with the intention of pre-ordering a working product. I would pay as much as I was willing to lose on a project I believe in - I see myself more as a supporter and beta-tester to get the product to where it needs to be. Maybe Kickstarter projects could elect to add a testing phase? A dev could ask for initial funding to produce a limited number of beta products, which would be sent out to selected testers who use the product, submit issues, and give feedback. After the bugs are worked out the product goes into full production. It could involve the community more in the development process, shift the expectation of receiving a perfectly working product, and improve the quality of the product.
  - mkaltenecker 14y ago
    What’s wrong with that if you know beforehand? Not everything will be on Kickstarter. This is not a systematic push to move responsibility to the customers. It’s just a fun distraction.
makmanalp 14y ago
Isn't that technically illegal since it's considered selling?

StavrosK 14y ago

Can someone explain how this is different from any other Android thing? Is it not the same thing as my phone/tablet hooked up to the TV with a Bluetooth gamepad?

cryptoz 14y ago
> phone/tablet Please let us know where you're buying a gaming-quality $100 phone or tablet from!
- StavrosK 14y ago
  It actually cost $0, as I already have one of each. Are you saying that none of the OUYA backers has an Android phone or tablet?
  - flexd 14y ago
    Are you easily able to connect your mobile phone to your TV? And does anyone even make games for phones that would benefit from being on a TV? I think OUYA could change how the platform gaming landscape looks like, and it certainly won't hurt for more competition to enter that market, hopefully putting some pressure on the existing companies.
    - StavrosK 14y ago
      > Are you easily able to connect your mobile phone to your TV? Yeah, the phone has an HDMI output. So does the tablet. > And does anyone even make games for phones that would benefit from being on a TV? Are OUYA making games? I'm genuinely asking, I'm not sure why people get so indignant about my question.
      - flexd 14y ago
        Do that many phones really have HDMI output? Mine does not as far as I know. My point is that with the current games on phones, I do not feel any of those would directly benefit from being on a TV. Angry Birds wouldn't suddenly get more fun just because it's on a big screen. A open console that's easily to hack on, be it software- or hardware-wise, would only be a good thing. And judging by the insane amount of money that has been pledged in this short time there is also a good market for one.¨ I think the OUYA will be a good thing, and the main benefit over just connecting your phone to the TV is that the console is created for being connected to a TV. The games are created for being on a TV, which changes the genre of games from Angry Birds style phone games to games like Quake or whatever else you might usually play on a console. That's sort of what I was trying to say with my previous questions, you might be able to connect your phone to the TV and have a equally good device, but the market and community the OUYA will create is what makes it valuable to me. There is no company that will make a videogame that suits the TV on the off-chance that you connect your mobile phone to one. :/

sneak 14y ago

I just hope I can get my product prototype to a meaningful place in time before a bunch of people collectively realize that most people selling shit on Kickstarter have no idea what they're doing and stop throwing money at these. The race is on!

naner 14y ago

If they take the $5mil and are unable to deliver, that might be the beginning of the end of crowdfunding.

SteveJS 14y ago
Will anybody even agree on what successful delivery looks like?
- objclxt 14y ago
  What is a successful delivery? I guess that depends. I would say a successful delivery is releasing the product. Given they've got a very aggresive schedule and are promising delivery for September 2012, I'd say a successful delivery would be getting the product out to backers before the end of the year (ie, the holidays). I do think they are setting themselves up for some serious pain - it's very difficult to turn down money. I think originally Ouya had a 5,000 limit on the $99 reward. Now they are offering 80,000, and the estimated delivery date hasn't changed. If their delivery was to slip (not all that surprising) the number of vocal angry customers who maybe don't fully understand the nature of Kickstarter funding is going to be much greater. Good luck to them - but it's important to go into this sort of thing with some sense of proportion. Even the best intended and funded projects can and do go a bit awry on the way to delivery. Just look at the team behind Ouya - their designer, Yves Behar, is a talented man, but two of his most well known projects (OLPC and the Jawbone Up) had significant delivery issues.
  - jsnell 14y ago
    The hardware isn't targeted at September 2012 but March 2013.
nimblegorilla 14y ago
If they don't deliver hopefully it will just open up new ways of vetting projects that raise six-figures or more. If they do deliver will that finally be enough to silence the crowdfunding naysayers?

jluxenberg 14y ago

From the founder's description of the console: "Let’s open this sucker up!...We’re handing the reins over to the developer with only one condition: at least some gameplay has to be free." They aim to produce an open platform for TV gaming that puts requirements on how games are distributed. What?! Doesn't sound "free" to me.

Fargren 14y ago
Free as in beer.
aggronn 14y ago
Well then, not when you put it that way.
veridies 14y ago
They're okay with a demo (as they say in the Kickstarter FAQ) and you can sideload apps. That's not anti-freedom.
trotsky 14y ago
we could use a term like green washing these days, for this kind of thing and the dual license hucksters

alttab 14y ago

I cannot fucking wait for this.

akshat 14y ago

This page is clearly blog spam. How did it land up on HN?

polshaw 14y ago

I really don't get the level of enthusiasm for this device, and struggle to see it really taking off mainstream (which may not matter, since it's just an android box). Yes, we haven't seen an android device targeted for gaming yet, but AFAICT, there is nothing this will do that you can't already do with something like an mk802[0]. Similarly, decent tablets can be had for $100[1]. Now, both of these have slower GPUs (mali 400, as SGS2), but come 9 months when this is actually meant to be available, i'm certain there will be better-than tegra3 hardware available in that price range. Further, most people could just connect their phone via hdmi and a PS3 controller to get the same result. Another angle of looking at it could be as reference hardware, like a nexus device for gaming. That would have advantages.. (better dev support etc etc) but its userbase is going to be a drop in the ocean compared to other android devices- take the SGS3 for example-- 9m pre-orders. This is currently at 0.05m.[2] I do wish these guys luck however.The fundraising is impressive however you look at it. I do see ARM devices taking over a large chunk of the conosle space[3], and i do see a mobile OS involved. A greater degree of freedom than the big boys (although not than android) is welcome, as is the competition. I really hope we get some quality in-room multiplayer back-- and this could help to spur that-- which hasn't been a first class citizen since way back in the n64 days(!). But there is no guarantee that anything will change. Ultimately, the success of the fundraising could be its own downfall, attracting google/apple/microsoft to compete. We all know how much they want presence in the living room. OUYA's interface is more suited for a game pad, but it's nothing that couldn't be matched with an app, or an android update. -- 0. $74 USB-stick PC. 1. I would post retail links but i don't want to come accross advertising. Check out cnx-software.com or armdevices.net if you wish to learn more. 2. based on a lazy $5m/$100. Extrapolate linearly over the 30 days and you still only have 0.3m.. a case which would smash all kickstarter funding into oblivion. People buying this would be expected to buy more games.. but we are looking a 30:1 ratio to match the big boys in the most optimistic case. 3. IMO the days of the monolithic console are numbered- mobile OS's have made gaming on an upgradeable platform as simple as the consoles, which will be soon out-dated by the relentless pace of progress in the ARM/mobile GPU world.