3 ms·

I'm surprised the US doesn't have 'reciprocity' laws that target the Chinese practices.

by throwaway48476 2y ago

izacus 2y ago
Why would US have a law that says "We'll enact every Chinese law, therefore changing US into China itself"?!
- Fauntleroy 2y ago
  You can only take the ideology olympics so far in geopolitical warfare
- throwaway48476 2y ago
  It would only apply to Chinese companies, thus the reciprocity.
- gretch 2y ago
  Note that china blocks all foreign companies while this bill blocks only foreign adversaries of the US (china, Russia, Iran, NK) while maintaining free trade with all the other places in the world.
- swatcoder 2y ago
  That's not what they're suggesting. They're noting that digital services have come to look more like traditional goods, and reasonably warrant analogous trade policies. If a foreign market bans or regulates some good on import, reciprocity just suggests applying an equivalent measure on their exports. Here, China restricts many US social media products, which a free market advocate would call an unfair distortion of the market, that deserves to be balanced by reciprocal restrictions on their social media products. (perhaps in the hopes of pressuring China to stand down their restricitions and "play fair")
  - izacus 2y ago
    And to legislate any of that, there's no need for something fundamentally misguided like "a law that automatically copies legislation of another country without control". US Government can legislate those restrictions, it's what its there for. This isn't software.
- uludag 2y ago
  Sounds like this could be the premise for a chapter in the book "Invisible Cities": I shall now explain to the city of Fransisca, the blue city upon who's golden shores the azure waves drift over, and above which a sapphire sky is rent asunder by the golden sun, bringing an ever so grand glistening upon its ember shores. But above Fransisca, beyond it's beaches and waters, lies another city, marked by furling banners of red, whoe jealousy of Fransisca has caused it to erect a barrier so as to not see its flourishing. Fransisca with her petulance at seeing the barrier erect, so too constructed a barrier upon her shores. Concrete slabs covering her beaches, costal grasslands made way to fences. In this way Fransisca became a mirror image of her overseas counterpart. And the crimson city, unable to see Fransisca eventual forgot why the barriers were build. One by one each stone brick was removed. Parking lots were raised in who's place grasslands grew. And in such a manner the crimson city became Fransisca. Actually, Fransisca has always been the crimson city and what we know today as Fransisca is actually the city of red banners of old. Time will tell if the true Fransisca will be remembered.
talldayo 2y ago
If the US attempted to pass reciprocal laws for every Chinese policy, America would go bankrupt within the month.
Matticus_Rex 2y ago
General reciprocity is a bad idea, because many laws suck and are a net bad for the country implementing them. Reciprocal tariffs are common, but harmful to the countries that implement them — if you're in a boat and the other guy shoots a hole in it, you don't get back at him by shooting another hold in the boat, and the threat of reciprocal tariffs usually doesn't work to get the original tariffs rescinded.
- ChadBrogramer69 2y ago
  [flagged]
- edmundsauto 2y ago
  I think it's more about the game theory of (MAD) than actual impact. The ideal state is reputation of reciprocity without actually having to do it. But because the US has a policy of openness / rich people in the US want to sell stuff made cheaply... it's fairly one way. In the 1970s, the USSR would literally just buy the latest US chips. No need for much crazy subterfuge and honeypots - go to conference, find someone with chips who likes cash, and buy them. That's what led to the crypto bans in the 1990s, where software that implemented cryptographic technology couldn't be exported - as if bits cared much about crossing borders and clickwraps!
braiamp 2y ago
Tik for tat exists, but only when you can have a clear communication about it. Veritasium did a piece about it for explaining for layman. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mScpHTIi-kM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mScpHTIi-kM

I'm surprised the US doesn't have 'reciprocity' laws that target the Chinese practices.

izacus 2y ago

Why would US have a law that says "We'll enact every Chinese law, therefore changing US into China itself"?!

Fauntleroy 2y ago
You can only take the ideology olympics so far in geopolitical warfare
throwaway48476 2y ago
It would only apply to Chinese companies, thus the reciprocity.
gretch 2y ago
Note that china blocks all foreign companies while this bill blocks only foreign adversaries of the US (china, Russia, Iran, NK) while maintaining free trade with all the other places in the world.
swatcoder 2y ago
That's not what they're suggesting. They're noting that digital services have come to look more like traditional goods, and reasonably warrant analogous trade policies. If a foreign market bans or regulates some good on import, reciprocity just suggests applying an equivalent measure on their exports. Here, China restricts many US social media products, which a free market advocate would call an unfair distortion of the market, that deserves to be balanced by reciprocal restrictions on their social media products. (perhaps in the hopes of pressuring China to stand down their restricitions and "play fair")
- izacus 2y ago
  And to legislate any of that, there's no need for something fundamentally misguided like "a law that automatically copies legislation of another country without control". US Government can legislate those restrictions, it's what its there for. This isn't software.
uludag 2y ago
Sounds like this could be the premise for a chapter in the book "Invisible Cities": I shall now explain to the city of Fransisca, the blue city upon who's golden shores the azure waves drift over, and above which a sapphire sky is rent asunder by the golden sun, bringing an ever so grand glistening upon its ember shores. But above Fransisca, beyond it's beaches and waters, lies another city, marked by furling banners of red, whoe jealousy of Fransisca has caused it to erect a barrier so as to not see its flourishing. Fransisca with her petulance at seeing the barrier erect, so too constructed a barrier upon her shores. Concrete slabs covering her beaches, costal grasslands made way to fences. In this way Fransisca became a mirror image of her overseas counterpart. And the crimson city, unable to see Fransisca eventual forgot why the barriers were build. One by one each stone brick was removed. Parking lots were raised in who's place grasslands grew. And in such a manner the crimson city became Fransisca. Actually, Fransisca has always been the crimson city and what we know today as Fransisca is actually the city of red banners of old. Time will tell if the true Fransisca will be remembered.

talldayo 2y ago

If the US attempted to pass reciprocal laws for every Chinese policy, America would go bankrupt within the month.

Matticus_Rex 2y ago

General reciprocity is a bad idea, because many laws suck and are a net bad for the country implementing them. Reciprocal tariffs are common, but harmful to the countries that implement them — if you're in a boat and the other guy shoots a hole in it, you don't get back at him by shooting another hold in the boat, and the threat of reciprocal tariffs usually doesn't work to get the original tariffs rescinded.

ChadBrogramer69 2y ago
[flagged]
edmundsauto 2y ago
I think it's more about the game theory of (MAD) than actual impact. The ideal state is reputation of reciprocity without actually having to do it. But because the US has a policy of openness / rich people in the US want to sell stuff made cheaply... it's fairly one way. In the 1970s, the USSR would literally just buy the latest US chips. No need for much crazy subterfuge and honeypots - go to conference, find someone with chips who likes cash, and buy them. That's what led to the crypto bans in the 1990s, where software that implemented cryptographic technology couldn't be exported - as if bits cared much about crossing borders and clickwraps!

braiamp 2y ago

Tik for tat exists, but only when you can have a clear communication about it. Veritasium did a piece about it for explaining for layman. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mScpHTIi-kM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mScpHTIi-kM