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> Matrix has been all about superlative marketing and over-promises with little substance and theoretical underpinnings to back it up. I don't think so. The un

by tcfhgj 2y ago

> Matrix has been all about superlative marketing and over-promises with little substance and theoretical underpinnings to back it up. I don't think so. The underpinnings were there, may it be the concepts for E2EE, P2P, Verification, Bridging, decentralized rooms and conferencing, synchronized history, etc. Not everything is production ready let alone finished with perfect UX, but it doesn't lack theoretical underpinnings. > The fact that they were spreading FUD and disinformation against XMPP In the past, I have experienced it more often vice versa than this way. > The fact that they haven't stabilized their protocol and made it scalable to mid-level deployments after more than a decade should be a reason for pause. There are already pretty large deployments (1+ million users), so I think it's scalable to mid-level deployments. > only one entity has emerged as willing to sink the costs of Matrix should be a reason for worries. idk what you mean > all of them XMPP services at one point or another of their histories histories is an important keyword

ezst 2y ago
> I don't think so. The underpinnings were there, may it be the concepts for E2EE, P2P, Verification, Bridging, decentralized rooms and conferencing, synchronized history, etc. Not everything is production ready let alone finished with perfect UX, but it doesn't lack theoretical underpinnings. Let me cut it short: either you think that there's nothing to be said about the current state resolution machinery, and that's an admission that Matrix will never reach its stated goal to become a mainstream decentralized network (because federation at scale just doesn't work with the current status-quo), or you agree with me that something needs to be done (but, like me, could turn impatient that nothing materializes after a decade). >> The fact that they were spreading FUD and disinformation against XMPP > In the past, I have experienced it more often vice versa than this way. I am not challenging your experience, I am talking about what was effectively written about XMPP on the Matrix website. If this was reciprocal as you say, I'd like to be shown where and in which terms XMPP has engaged in disinformation campaigns against Matrix. At least, with the xmpp.org website's history being on github, it should be very easy: https://github.com/search?q=repo%3Axsf%2Fxmpp.org%20matrix&type=code https://github.com/search?q=repo%3Axsf%2Fxmpp.org%20matrix&t... >> all of them XMPP services at one point or another of their histories > histories is an important keyword If by that you mean that WhatsApp, the single largest chat network to have ever existed, is history, I've got news for you. While we may regret that federation never was a thing with this network, talking about underpinnings, they are still very much versed in XMPP. And that's not an exception. All Android devices depend on XMPP for push notifications, so do every Nintendo switch, and millions of access points, networking and IoT devices. XMPP is all but dead.

by tcfhgj 2y ago

ezst 2y ago

> I don't think so. The underpinnings were there, may it be the concepts for E2EE, P2P, Verification, Bridging, decentralized rooms and conferencing, synchronized history, etc. Not everything is production ready let alone finished with perfect UX, but it doesn't lack theoretical underpinnings. Let me cut it short: either you think that there's nothing to be said about the current state resolution machinery, and that's an admission that Matrix will never reach its stated goal to become a mainstream decentralized network (because federation at scale just doesn't work with the current status-quo), or you agree with me that something needs to be done (but, like me, could turn impatient that nothing materializes after a decade). >> The fact that they were spreading FUD and disinformation against XMPP > In the past, I have experienced it more often vice versa than this way. I am not challenging your experience, I am talking about what was effectively written about XMPP on the Matrix website. If this was reciprocal as you say, I'd like to be shown where and in which terms XMPP has engaged in disinformation campaigns against Matrix. At least, with the xmpp.org website's history being on github, it should be very easy: https://github.com/search?q=repo%3Axsf%2Fxmpp.org%20matrix&type=code https://github.com/search?q=repo%3Axsf%2Fxmpp.org%20matrix&t... >> all of them XMPP services at one point or another of their histories > histories is an important keyword If by that you mean that WhatsApp, the single largest chat network to have ever existed, is history, I've got news for you. While we may regret that federation never was a thing with this network, talking about underpinnings, they are still very much versed in XMPP. And that's not an exception. All Android devices depend on XMPP for push notifications, so do every Nintendo switch, and millions of access points, networking and IoT devices. XMPP is all but dead.