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IRC is pretty much the opposite of the definition of a walled garden. Its content is not discoverable by search engines by default, but that is not the definiti

IRC is pretty much the opposite of the definition of a walled garden. Its content is not discoverable by search engines by default, but that is not the definition of a walled garden, which is typically a synonym for closed platforms where you have no choice how to access their content (e.g. being forced to use a specific client software).

tryauuum 2y ago
Hm, for me the definition of the walled garden is "you have to have an account to see any discussions"
- fl0id 2y ago
  Which you don’t need for irc. Also pretty sure that’s not an accurate definition as you can be walked without needing an account technically.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
sandos 2y ago
But in general IRC is not really archived etc? So just as throw-away as Discord imo.
- johannes1234321 2y ago
  However on IRC this is not for technical reasons, but limited interest. Pre-LLM-GenAI gathering information from huge chat logs was quite limited. But different extraction mechanisms always existed. Some people kept logs, some servers/channels had web-archives. Discord tries to keep it exclusive to them. (Focussing on technical side here, whether it's socially wanted is a different big question, which ends with a "it depends")
  - anthk 2y ago
    grep/recoll. Fast even on ancient machines.
    - johannes1234321 2y ago
      That's nice for finding Keywords, but dismantling a chat discussion, which probably consists of many parallel threads in a channel, isn't easy.
- corobo 2y ago
  Being knowingly throwaway meant that any long term knowledge got turned into a blog post, documentation, a forum thread, or a search engine indexable logs-to-html site in the worst case. With discord the message might get pinned if a mod thinks it was useful and remains undiscoverable for the majority of people
  - thunky 2y ago
    > remains undiscoverable for the majority of people IME it doesn't work very well. If you hang around a discord server long enough you see the same conversations happening over and over and over. And the app is not good at helping you finding old conversations (which is why they are repeated endlessly). It's also very bad at resuming where you left off, so it's incredibly difficult to follow an active thread without missing anything: https://www.reddit.com/r/discordapp/comments/18d4tiv/inexplicable_pure_autoscrolling_hell/ https://www.reddit.com/r/discordapp/comments/18d4tiv/inexpli...
- dijit 2y ago
  Any single client can upload their logs, since it's "archived" in plaintext on every users PC. You can also log from the server; using a multitude of modules; https://docs.inspircd.org/4/modules/log_syslog/ https://docs.inspircd.org/4/modules/log_syslog/ or https://docs.inspircd.org/4/modules/log_json/ https://docs.inspircd.org/4/modules/log_json/ if you're using inspircd.
  - hombre_fatal 2y ago
    The point still stands. Regardless of how easy it might be to access logs, not a single popular Freenode (or otherwise) server I spent years chatting on has an archive online. It might as well have all taken place on Discord. Turns out what matters isn’t how easy it is to access logs but whether anyone cares to do it.
    - dijit 2y ago
      You sure? There are loads. Have you tried looking? Heres an archive searcher for #bitfighter on freenode: https://bitfighter.org/irclogs/search.php https://bitfighter.org/irclogs/search.php
      - hombre_fatal 2y ago
        That's the counter example? A channel with one day logged in 2024, then nothing for two years, then nine days logged in 2022, five days logged in 2021, etc? What about big tech channels like, say, nodejs and javascript?
        dijit 2y ago
        I’m not exactly sure why you think that matters. Everyone in those channels have logs that any program can read. The point that I am making is that the capability and software exists, even for others to view, if you want. I mean: did you need an account or specialised client for these logs? Thats the point. Be the change you want to see if you want archives uploaded. Or, do what others do: grep your local files or znc logs.
- result2vino 2y ago
  [dead]
- johnisgood 2y ago
  Lots of people log channels, and that is another discussion when you see yourself online. They usually mention it in the topic though that the channel is logged.
bomanjak 2y ago
[dead]
Klonoar 2y ago
This is notably not the definition from the thread you’re responding to, though. So…

tryauuum 2y ago

Hm, for me the definition of the walled garden is "you have to have an account to see any discussions"

fl0id 2y ago
Which you don’t need for irc. Also pretty sure that’s not an accurate definition as you can be walked without needing an account technically.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

sandos 2y ago

But in general IRC is not really archived etc? So just as throw-away as Discord imo.

johannes1234321 2y ago
However on IRC this is not for technical reasons, but limited interest. Pre-LLM-GenAI gathering information from huge chat logs was quite limited. But different extraction mechanisms always existed. Some people kept logs, some servers/channels had web-archives. Discord tries to keep it exclusive to them. (Focussing on technical side here, whether it's socially wanted is a different big question, which ends with a "it depends")
- anthk 2y ago
  grep/recoll. Fast even on ancient machines.
  - johannes1234321 2y ago
    That's nice for finding Keywords, but dismantling a chat discussion, which probably consists of many parallel threads in a channel, isn't easy.
corobo 2y ago
Being knowingly throwaway meant that any long term knowledge got turned into a blog post, documentation, a forum thread, or a search engine indexable logs-to-html site in the worst case. With discord the message might get pinned if a mod thinks it was useful and remains undiscoverable for the majority of people
- thunky 2y ago
  > remains undiscoverable for the majority of people IME it doesn't work very well. If you hang around a discord server long enough you see the same conversations happening over and over and over. And the app is not good at helping you finding old conversations (which is why they are repeated endlessly). It's also very bad at resuming where you left off, so it's incredibly difficult to follow an active thread without missing anything: https://www.reddit.com/r/discordapp/comments/18d4tiv/inexplicable_pure_autoscrolling_hell/ https://www.reddit.com/r/discordapp/comments/18d4tiv/inexpli...
dijit 2y ago
Any single client can upload their logs, since it's "archived" in plaintext on every users PC. You can also log from the server; using a multitude of modules; https://docs.inspircd.org/4/modules/log_syslog/ https://docs.inspircd.org/4/modules/log_syslog/ or https://docs.inspircd.org/4/modules/log_json/ https://docs.inspircd.org/4/modules/log_json/ if you're using inspircd.
- hombre_fatal 2y ago
  The point still stands. Regardless of how easy it might be to access logs, not a single popular Freenode (or otherwise) server I spent years chatting on has an archive online. It might as well have all taken place on Discord. Turns out what matters isn’t how easy it is to access logs but whether anyone cares to do it.
  - dijit 2y ago
    You sure? There are loads. Have you tried looking? Heres an archive searcher for #bitfighter on freenode: https://bitfighter.org/irclogs/search.php https://bitfighter.org/irclogs/search.php
    - hombre_fatal 2y ago
      That's the counter example? A channel with one day logged in 2024, then nothing for two years, then nine days logged in 2022, five days logged in 2021, etc? What about big tech channels like, say, nodejs and javascript?
      - dijit 2y ago
        I’m not exactly sure why you think that matters. Everyone in those channels have logs that any program can read. The point that I am making is that the capability and software exists, even for others to view, if you want. I mean: did you need an account or specialised client for these logs? Thats the point. Be the change you want to see if you want archives uploaded. Or, do what others do: grep your local files or znc logs.
result2vino 2y ago
[dead]
johnisgood 2y ago
Lots of people log channels, and that is another discussion when you see yourself online. They usually mention it in the topic though that the channel is logged.

bomanjak 2y ago

[dead]

Klonoar 2y ago

This is notably not the definition from the thread you’re responding to, though. So…