4 ms·
IRC is also a walled garden.
by ycuser2 2y ago
IRC is also a walled garden.
- TonyTrapp 2y agoIRC is pretty much the opposite of the definition of a walled garden. Its content is not discoverable by search engines by default, but that is not the definition of a walled garden, which is typically a synonym for closed platforms where you have no choice how to access their content (e.g. being forced to use a specific client software).
- tryauuum 2y agoHm, for me the definition of the walled garden is "you have to have an account to see any discussions"
- fl0id 2y agoWhich you don’t need for irc. Also pretty sure that’s not an accurate definition as you can be walked without needing an account technically.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- sandos 2y agoBut in general IRC is not really archived etc? So just as throw-away as Discord imo.
- johannes1234321 2y agoHowever on IRC this is not for technical reasons, but limited interest. Pre-LLM-GenAI gathering information from huge chat logs was quite limited. But different extraction mechanisms always existed. Some people kept logs, some servers/channels had web-archives. Discord tries to keep it exclusive to them. (Focussing on technical side here, whether it's socially wanted is a different big question, which ends with a "it depends")
- anthk 2y agogrep/recoll. Fast even on ancient machines.
- johannes1234321 2y agoThat's nice for finding Keywords, but dismantling a chat discussion, which probably consists of many parallel threads in a channel, isn't easy.
- corobo 2y agoBeing knowingly throwaway meant that any long term knowledge got turned into a blog post, documentation, a forum thread, or a search engine indexable logs-to-html site in the worst case. With discord the message might get pinned if a mod thinks it was useful and remains undiscoverable for the majority of people
- thunky 2y ago> remains undiscoverable for the majority of people IME it doesn't work very well. If you hang around a discord server long enough you see the same conversations happening over and over and over. And the app is not good at helping you finding old conversations (which is why they are repeated endlessly). It's also very bad at resuming where you left off, so it's incredibly difficult to follow an active thread without missing anything: https://www.reddit.com/r/discordapp/comments/18d4tiv/inexplicable_pure_autoscrolling_hell/ https://www.reddit.com/r/discordapp/comments/18d4tiv/inexpli...
- dijit 2y agoAny single client can upload their logs, since it's "archived" in plaintext on every users PC. You can also log from the server; using a multitude of modules; https://docs.inspircd.org/4/modules/log_syslog/ https://docs.inspircd.org/4/modules/log_syslog/ or https://docs.inspircd.org/4/modules/log_json/ https://docs.inspircd.org/4/modules/log_json/ if you're using inspircd.
- hombre_fatal 2y agoThe point still stands. Regardless of how easy it might be to access logs, not a single popular Freenode (or otherwise) server I spent years chatting on has an archive online. It might as well have all taken place on Discord. Turns out what matters isn’t how easy it is to access logs but whether anyone cares to do it.
- dijit 2y agoYou sure? There are loads. Have you tried looking? Heres an archive searcher for #bitfighter on freenode: https://bitfighter.org/irclogs/search.php https://bitfighter.org/irclogs/search.php
- hombre_fatal 2y agoThat's the counter example? A channel with one day logged in 2024, then nothing for two years, then nine days logged in 2022, five days logged in 2021, etc? What about big tech channels like, say, nodejs and javascript?
- dijit 2y agoI’m not exactly sure why you think that matters. Everyone in those channels have logs that any program can read. The point that I am making is that the capability and software exists, even for others to view, if you want. I mean: did you need an account or specialised client for these logs? Thats the point. Be the change you want to see if you want archives uploaded. Or, do what others do: grep your local files or znc logs.
- result2vino 2y ago[dead]
- johnisgood 2y agoLots of people log channels, and that is another discussion when you see yourself online. They usually mention it in the topic though that the channel is logged.
- bomanjak 2y ago[dead]
- Klonoar 2y agoThis is notably not the definition from the thread you’re responding to, though. So…
- boltzmann64 2y agoIt's not a website a search engine can crawl but anyone on the internet can log all the messages on IRC as long as they want without any restrictions. In fact if you are nice, you will never need to login and can have conversation for as long as you want with a guest login. It is not a walled garden.
- trollbridge 2y agoSearch engines could crawl it if they wanted to.
- rendx 2y agoFor me, a "walled garden" is also something controlled and regulated by a party I have no influence over. They can arbitrarily make and change rules and decide who to let in or not, which feature to drop, how the UX looks like etc. IRC is an open, community protocol, and as such not a walled garden. Even if I'm not involved, which I could be, I trust the composition of people there much more than any single commercial actor. The power dynamics are fundamentally different. A single instance (an IRC network) may be a "walled garden", in control of the group that runs it. The incentives are different. Also because people can simply migrate to another network given the open protocol (and different, third party clients; the API cannot be shut down like with Twitter/X). Historical example e.g. Freenode ownership change.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- blueflow 2y agoIRC is not "walled off" - open protocol, open servers, open clients.
- tomrod 2y agoA walled garden is a platform where auth is required to come in and user content is owned and stuck within. IRC is not a walled garden. You will have a better time registering with Nickserv, but you can pull content and logs channels. So, more like a fenced meadow.
- yapyap 2y agoexplain ur definition of walled garden please