6 ms·

I imagine if I was from Taiwan; Kumamoto would be much more attractive based on climate alone. Sapporo gets cold.

by klausa 2y ago

pezezin 2y ago
I mentioned it in another comment: I am working in Aomori and my company struggles to find qualified engineers because few people want to live here. The climate is a MAJOR issue. Kyūshū looks like a much more attractive option.
- wenc 2y ago
  Aomori pop 270k is different — it is somewhat less desirable to someone like me than somewhere close to Sapporo. I don’t think it’s the weather. It’s the isolation. Most Asian people love living around others. We crave the human energy, the hustle and bustle of economic activity, the opportunities, the food, etc. Climate is something one lives with. Given the choice between Bakersfield CA and Chicago, I’d choose Chicago any day, only because the opportunities are greater in Chicago. I absolutely loved living in Chicago. Even Seattle where I live now is too small for me.
  - trallnag 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - klausa 2y ago
      Please don’t do this. Yes, we know, living in big city is not everyone’s cup of tea; you don’t have to ridicule people who have made different choices than you.
    - maeil 2y ago
      > Be kind. Don't be snarky. Converse curiously; don't cross-examine. Edit out swipes. > Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive. > When disagreeing, please reply to the argument instead of calling names. "That is idiotic; 1 + 1 is 2, not 3" can be shortened to "1 + 1 is 2, not 3." > Please don't fulminate. Please don't sneer, including at the rest of the community. > Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith. > Eschew flamebait. Avoid generic tangents. Omit internet tropes.
  - maeil 2y ago
    > Most Asian people love living around others. We crave the human energy, the hustle and bustle of economic activity, the opportunities, the food, etc. Any statement starting with "Most Asian people" that doesn't end with something like "have two arms and two legs" can be discarded. 4.6 billion people, many of whom are culturally as close to each other as they are to someone from Sweden. Even here in Seoul, one of the more populous cities, so many people would move in a heartbeat if they could keep the same job and e.g. education for their children. They certainly don't love it.
    - wenc 2y ago
      > Even here in Seoul, one of the more populous cities, so many people would move in a heartbeat if they could keep the same job and e.g. education for their children. They certainly don't love it. That's interesting -- because Seoul is one of the most overwhelming examples of city preference (perhaps not internal desire, but opportunity seeking behavior) in the world. Korea has a problem in that the population is in fact too concentrated in Seoul, which creates distortions in the economy, and the government has been trying to get people to spread out more (Sejong City is an attempt). People are frustrated with things about Seoul but they still stay for the opportunity. Let's flip the question this way: if apartment ownership was affordable, opportunities were good, air was clean, most things in life like healthcare, education, etc. were affordable, would people naturally seek to move to a big city? Tokyo is such a city and the answer for many people has been yes. It may not be the preference of most people you meet online, but empirically the numbers reveal preference.
      - numpad0 2y ago
        This is nicely worded but I'm not sure what to make of it. No offense, but doesn't make a lot of sense. Younger populations tend to get attracted to cities, tolerating worse living standards in exchange for better wages and shorter commutes. But higher commodity prices negate benefits, and also lower standards of life suppress offspring, which is politically highly problematic. Isn't that the fundamental defect in concept of a city since the industrial revolution? A typical luxury condo in Tokyo costs $1m, offer 100m^2(1k sqft) of single floor dwelling, with 300 individual properties on average spanning couple dozen floors. That might be a 0.1% lifestyle, relatively speaking, but objectively and especially in comparison with historical descriptions of opulent life, I can't exactly see how it compares.
  - pezezin 2y ago
    1) Asian where? Asia spans from Japan to Turkey. 2) The weather is definitely a big factor. The cold, some of the highest amount of snow fall in the world, strong winds, and houses without insulation make for a poor combination. It is so nasty that even the colleagues from Northern Europe were complaining. But it doesn't matter if you like or not; what matters is if the average Japanese person likes it, and they don't. When I travel around Japan and tell people where I live, they are always shocked and ask me what am I doing in such a cold place.
  - lotsofpulp 2y ago
    > Climate is something one lives with. Given the choice between Bakersfield CA and Chicago, I’d choose Chicago any day, only because the opportunities are greater in Chicago. I absolutely loved living in Chicago. Even Seattle where I live now is too small for me. The data on population changes in the USA indicates the people want to avoid freezing temperatures over hot temperatures.
    - ghaff 2y ago
      >The data on population changes in the USA indicates the people want to avoid freezing temperatures over hot temperatures. That data is probably at least somewhat biased by retirees who turn the air conditioner on and don't want to deal with some of the inevitable physical demands and transportation difficulties associated with snow.
      - bobthepanda 2y ago
        I mean, working people don’t want to get out and shovel their driveway at 4am if they can avoid it either.
        ghaff 2y ago
        But they do if that's the reality of where they need to live for where they work. It's long been the case that some number of people in the US migrate south when they retire.
        bobthepanda 2y ago
        there's not really proof behind that it's entirely or even majority retirees moving. there's plenty of work in or moving to the Sun Belt. The Sun Belt is getting younger: https://kinder.rice.edu/urbanedge/large-young-and-fast-growing-sun-belt-metros-need-urban-policy-innovation https://kinder.rice.edu/urbanedge/large-young-and-fast-growi...
        ghaff 2y ago
  - makeitdouble 2y ago
    To note, the climate isn't just whether you enjoy snow or not. It's pointed in other comments as well, but winter in the north means trains getting canceled, flights delays if it's really bad up there. Aomori is land connected so there's still other options, but in the event of an earthquake in the middle of winter you're playing the survival game in hard mode. Even if it's a smallish shake and you just need your gas checked and restarted by a technician, you might be out of hot water for a few days while it's freezing outside. Elderly for instance regularly die during these kind of disruptions, and you'd think they know what they're doing.
    - pezezin 2y ago
      That happened during the Great Tohoku Earthquake of 2011. There is an excellent Netflix series about the Fukushima disaster called The Days which depicts the family of a powerplant worker from Mutsu struggling with the winter weather after the power cuts. About elder people, we heard from the emergency services that, due the lack of insulation and central heating of most houses here, the most common type of emergency during the winter is elder people moving from a warm room to a cold room like the toilet and suffering from thermal shock.
wenc 2y ago
Eh. Sapporo goes down to -10C (14F). That’s nothing for anyone who’s ever lived in Canada or the northern US (apart from Seattle). Source: personal experience. Taiwanese people will move to where the opportunities are. You’ll find many of them in the northern US states, which are, if not snowier, are definitely colder than Sapporo.
- ghaff 2y ago
  There's probably something of a California (or at least West Coast) bias on this board. But much of the US is less moderate in overall climate, towards both cold/snow and heat at various times of the year. A large portion of the US has real winters. (And some of those areas get pretty hot and humid in the summer--like, umm, Tokyo.)
  - wenc 2y ago
    Yes. Most northern US cities are snowy and cold in the winter and hot and humid in the summer. Even NYC, the largest city in the US has real winters (though moderated by being on the coast, it can dip down to 14F easily). And humid summers of course.
    - ghaff 2y ago
      I spent a summer in NYC once as an intern. And, not having a Hamptons option, I was definitely reaching out to Princeton and Greenwich friends on August weekends to visit. And Northeast cities, even into mid-Atlantic, are nothing especially delightful in the winter if snow isn't your thing. That's what I've lived with most of my life and I've been mostly fine with it. But if you're with some version of a Bay Area climate or bust, you may not consider it acceptable. (And even a "Mediterranean climate" gets pretty hot in a lot of places in the summer many places.) There's a reason that people who can afford to and want to put the energy into migrate locales from summer to winter.
rjsw 2y ago
Some people like the cold. Being able to go skiing after work would be an attraction to me.
- indoordin0saur 2y ago
  I personally would love to live in Hokkaido. The snow is perhaps the best and most reliable in the world. And the summers in the rest of Japan are miserably hot and miserable, while they're just pleasantly warm in Hokkaido.

I imagine if I was from Taiwan; Kumamoto would be much more attractive based on climate alone. Sapporo gets cold.

by klausa 2y ago

I imagine if I was from Taiwan; Kumamoto would be much more attractive based on climate alone. Sapporo gets cold.

I mentioned it in another comment: I am working in Aomori and my company struggles to find qualified engineers because few people want to live here. The climate is a MAJOR issue. Kyūshū looks like a much more attractive option.

wenc 2y ago
Aomori pop 270k is different — it is somewhat less desirable to someone like me than somewhere close to Sapporo. I don’t think it’s the weather. It’s the isolation. Most Asian people love living around others. We crave the human energy, the hustle and bustle of economic activity, the opportunities, the food, etc. Climate is something one lives with. Given the choice between Bakersfield CA and Chicago, I’d choose Chicago any day, only because the opportunities are greater in Chicago. I absolutely loved living in Chicago. Even Seattle where I live now is too small for me.
- trallnag 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - klausa 2y ago
    Please don’t do this. Yes, we know, living in big city is not everyone’s cup of tea; you don’t have to ridicule people who have made different choices than you.
  - maeil 2y ago
    > Be kind. Don't be snarky. Converse curiously; don't cross-examine. Edit out swipes. > Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive. > When disagreeing, please reply to the argument instead of calling names. "That is idiotic; 1 + 1 is 2, not 3" can be shortened to "1 + 1 is 2, not 3." > Please don't fulminate. Please don't sneer, including at the rest of the community. > Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith. > Eschew flamebait. Avoid generic tangents. Omit internet tropes.
- maeil 2y ago
  > Most Asian people love living around others. We crave the human energy, the hustle and bustle of economic activity, the opportunities, the food, etc. Any statement starting with "Most Asian people" that doesn't end with something like "have two arms and two legs" can be discarded. 4.6 billion people, many of whom are culturally as close to each other as they are to someone from Sweden. Even here in Seoul, one of the more populous cities, so many people would move in a heartbeat if they could keep the same job and e.g. education for their children. They certainly don't love it.
  - wenc 2y ago
    > Even here in Seoul, one of the more populous cities, so many people would move in a heartbeat if they could keep the same job and e.g. education for their children. They certainly don't love it. That's interesting -- because Seoul is one of the most overwhelming examples of city preference (perhaps not internal desire, but opportunity seeking behavior) in the world. Korea has a problem in that the population is in fact too concentrated in Seoul, which creates distortions in the economy, and the government has been trying to get people to spread out more (Sejong City is an attempt). People are frustrated with things about Seoul but they still stay for the opportunity. Let's flip the question this way: if apartment ownership was affordable, opportunities were good, air was clean, most things in life like healthcare, education, etc. were affordable, would people naturally seek to move to a big city? Tokyo is such a city and the answer for many people has been yes. It may not be the preference of most people you meet online, but empirically the numbers reveal preference.
    - numpad0 2y ago
      This is nicely worded but I'm not sure what to make of it. No offense, but doesn't make a lot of sense. Younger populations tend to get attracted to cities, tolerating worse living standards in exchange for better wages and shorter commutes. But higher commodity prices negate benefits, and also lower standards of life suppress offspring, which is politically highly problematic. Isn't that the fundamental defect in concept of a city since the industrial revolution? A typical luxury condo in Tokyo costs $1m, offer 100m^2(1k sqft) of single floor dwelling, with 300 individual properties on average spanning couple dozen floors. That might be a 0.1% lifestyle, relatively speaking, but objectively and especially in comparison with historical descriptions of opulent life, I can't exactly see how it compares.
- pezezin 2y ago
  1) Asian where? Asia spans from Japan to Turkey. 2) The weather is definitely a big factor. The cold, some of the highest amount of snow fall in the world, strong winds, and houses without insulation make for a poor combination. It is so nasty that even the colleagues from Northern Europe were complaining. But it doesn't matter if you like or not; what matters is if the average Japanese person likes it, and they don't. When I travel around Japan and tell people where I live, they are always shocked and ask me what am I doing in such a cold place.
- lotsofpulp 2y ago
  > Climate is something one lives with. Given the choice between Bakersfield CA and Chicago, I’d choose Chicago any day, only because the opportunities are greater in Chicago. I absolutely loved living in Chicago. Even Seattle where I live now is too small for me. The data on population changes in the USA indicates the people want to avoid freezing temperatures over hot temperatures.
  - ghaff 2y ago
    >The data on population changes in the USA indicates the people want to avoid freezing temperatures over hot temperatures. That data is probably at least somewhat biased by retirees who turn the air conditioner on and don't want to deal with some of the inevitable physical demands and transportation difficulties associated with snow.
    - bobthepanda 2y ago
      I mean, working people don’t want to get out and shovel their driveway at 4am if they can avoid it either.
      - ghaff 2y ago
        But they do if that's the reality of where they need to live for where they work. It's long been the case that some number of people in the US migrate south when they retire.
        bobthepanda 2y ago
        there's not really proof behind that it's entirely or even majority retirees moving. there's plenty of work in or moving to the Sun Belt. The Sun Belt is getting younger: https://kinder.rice.edu/urbanedge/large-young-and-fast-growing-sun-belt-metros-need-urban-policy-innovation https://kinder.rice.edu/urbanedge/large-young-and-fast-growi...
        ghaff 2y ago
- makeitdouble 2y ago
  To note, the climate isn't just whether you enjoy snow or not. It's pointed in other comments as well, but winter in the north means trains getting canceled, flights delays if it's really bad up there. Aomori is land connected so there's still other options, but in the event of an earthquake in the middle of winter you're playing the survival game in hard mode. Even if it's a smallish shake and you just need your gas checked and restarted by a technician, you might be out of hot water for a few days while it's freezing outside. Elderly for instance regularly die during these kind of disruptions, and you'd think they know what they're doing.
  - pezezin 2y ago
    That happened during the Great Tohoku Earthquake of 2011. There is an excellent Netflix series about the Fukushima disaster called The Days which depicts the family of a powerplant worker from Mutsu struggling with the winter weather after the power cuts. About elder people, we heard from the emergency services that, due the lack of insulation and central heating of most houses here, the most common type of emergency during the winter is elder people moving from a warm room to a cold room like the toilet and suffering from thermal shock.

wenc 2y ago

Eh. Sapporo goes down to -10C (14F). That’s nothing for anyone who’s ever lived in Canada or the northern US (apart from Seattle). Source: personal experience. Taiwanese people will move to where the opportunities are. You’ll find many of them in the northern US states, which are, if not snowier, are definitely colder than Sapporo.

ghaff 2y ago
There's probably something of a California (or at least West Coast) bias on this board. But much of the US is less moderate in overall climate, towards both cold/snow and heat at various times of the year. A large portion of the US has real winters. (And some of those areas get pretty hot and humid in the summer--like, umm, Tokyo.)
- wenc 2y ago
  Yes. Most northern US cities are snowy and cold in the winter and hot and humid in the summer. Even NYC, the largest city in the US has real winters (though moderated by being on the coast, it can dip down to 14F easily). And humid summers of course.
  - ghaff 2y ago
    I spent a summer in NYC once as an intern. And, not having a Hamptons option, I was definitely reaching out to Princeton and Greenwich friends on August weekends to visit. And Northeast cities, even into mid-Atlantic, are nothing especially delightful in the winter if snow isn't your thing. That's what I've lived with most of my life and I've been mostly fine with it. But if you're with some version of a Bay Area climate or bust, you may not consider it acceptable. (And even a "Mediterranean climate" gets pretty hot in a lot of places in the summer many places.) There's a reason that people who can afford to and want to put the energy into migrate locales from summer to winter.

rjsw 2y ago

Some people like the cold. Being able to go skiing after work would be an attraction to me.

indoordin0saur 2y ago
I personally would love to live in Hokkaido. The snow is perhaps the best and most reliable in the world. And the summers in the rest of Japan are miserably hot and miserable, while they're just pleasantly warm in Hokkaido.