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That Unitree G1 [1] in the video starts at $16k, which surprised me. I’m guessing end effectors drive that price way up but it feels like we are maybe a decade

That Unitree G1 [1] in the video starts at $16k, which surprised me. I’m guessing end effectors drive that price way up but it feels like we are maybe a decade away from useful household humanoid robots for the price of a cheap car, which would put it well within the means of many in the developed world. Does anyone have any insight on how realistically far away the control and programming is from that reality? A bunch of very impressive robotic control model research has been posted on HN in the last two years but as an outsider it’s hard to evaluate just how close we are to doing away with folding clothes by general purpose humanoid robot. [1] https://www.unitree.com/mobile/g1 https://www.unitree.com/mobile/g1

modeless 2y ago
I'm pretty sure that $16k is aspirational at this point. See "Contact us for the real price" here: https://shop.unitree.com/products/unitree-g1 https://shop.unitree.com/products/unitree-g1 I've heard that the real price is more like $35k. And you probably want options that increase the price more. For example on one of their dog robots I believe the base price doesn't include detailed control over the limbs, so you can only use their included software to walk it around. Still though, even the higher price is pretty good. Hard to see how China doesn't dominate humanoids given their manufacturing advantage and the sheer number of humanoid companies there now. Dozens!
- alsodumb 2y ago
  Someone I know got it recently. If you're getting with the API and all the sensors it was close to 60k including customs and all of that.
  - anonzzzies 2y ago
    I would buy that today if the battery life was not abysmal. It is though; that is, at least for me, a far larger issue than all else. We cannot make laptops or phones work an entire day; robots/drones are measured in minutes.
    - modeless 2y ago
      What would you use it for that needs long battery life?
      - anonzzzies 2y ago
        Shopping (which takes hours where I live), picking olives (it will take forever if you have to hop into the charger every 15 minutes), carrying my backpack on walks etc.
        ben_w 2y ago
        For shopping, surely the best robotic option are the various things the huge warehouses use, rather than havingthan a humanoid going around a store meant for humans? Both the things that look like Roombas and all these: https://youtu.be/ssZ_8cqfBlE?si=9mCtiKKkk_N9Uk7z https://youtu.be/ssZ_8cqfBlE?si=9mCtiKKkk_N9Uk7z No single consumer would buy all that, but the retailers can.
        stubish 2y ago
        The most overall efficient method is robotizing the store and deliveries, yes. Which a consumer is powerless to do. But if a consumer can buy a generalized household robot, it becomes cheaper the more tasks it can perform, amortizing the cost over the total work done. A generalized household robot will become practical when it becomes cheaper than hiring staff or carers. There is most certainly a market with the elderly and others requiring assistance for a robot capable of going around stores meant for humans.
        nonameiguess 2y ago
        Are there not bigger constraints than battery life to a robot being able to do your shopping for you? It can't drive, public transit probably won't let a robot ride it, it can walk but it'll take forever. If it gets hit by a vehicle while walking, is the vehicle driver even committing a crime? Do you get reimbursed? Is the robot insurable? Do you owe the driver for damaging their car? If it gets to the store at all, will it be let in? If the store allows robots to enter, how is it supposed to pay? Robot's don't own bank accounts, so it has to prove it has the legal ability to use your account. Does this thing have Apple Pay and Google Pay integration built into it? You surely can't just give it cash or your physical credit card and hope that no one notices and steals it. Would a cashier even let a robot use a card that is supposed to be tied to a human identity? How do you authorize that? How does the robot prove it belongs to you? For that matter, is there anything stopping a person from taking it and factory resetting? I tried to search for both "anti theft" and "theft" on that seller website and nothing came up. Maybe search is just broken for me? These are prominent features of mobile computing devices, cars, generally anything reasonably expensive you might intentionally or unintentionally leave in public unattended. Apparently the site has an AI assistant, so I asked it. It said: > Based on the provided context information from Unitree Technology, there is no specific mention of anti-theft features for the robots produced by Unitree Technology. The focus of the information is primarily on the various modes, functionalities, and control mechanisms of the robots, such as Zero Torque Mode, Damping Mode, Seating Mode, Ready Mode, Motion Mode, Standing Mode, Dance Mode, and Debug Mode. Additionally, the information covers services provided by the robots, including basic services, AI Sport Services, Normal Sport Services, Image Services, Network Services, and SLAM Services. > Therefore, based on the available information, it can be concluded that there is no explicit reference to anti-theft features in the description of the robots produced by Unitree Technology. For detailed information on any anti-theft features or security measures, it is recommended to consult Unitree’s official resources or customer support for more specific details. In typical AI fashion, that's an extremely verbose way of saying "no, there are no anti-theft features."
demarq 2y ago
Nope the price is not “up”. For reference the spot robot from Boston dynamics starts at 74k usd. So you could literally have a team of humanoids for the price of a spot.
ben_w 2y ago
The Unitree links claim a 9000mAh battery will last it 2 hours; I don't know the voltage, but even at 5.5 V cells, that's only about 25 W average power consumption. I find this difficult to believe, both because that's a very low power draw and because that would be penny-pinching on battery capacity. My expectation on timescale is that genuinely general-purpose robots will need at least as much compute as a self-driving car (possibly more, that's a minimum), and have at most 1/10th the available power to do that (because they're physically smaller). Between algorithmic improvements and Koomey's law, I think this will take at least 5 years between any given category of customer being able to afford no-steering-wheel-needed self driving cars, and the equivalent for androids. Given the Waymos were doing geo-fenced cars with no safety drivers in the vehicles in 2017 (but still had an employee in the back with access to an emergency stop button)*, this gap is compatible with the recent press releases and youtube videos going around about robotics — but as nobody has yet started actually shipping this level of self-driving cars directly to end users**, my only guess for personal general-purpose domestic androids is: some time after 2030 as a minimum, but probably later than that. * https://phys.org/news/2017-11-waymo-autonomous-vans-human-drivers.html https://phys.org/news/2017-11-waymo-autonomous-vans-human-dr... ** No, Tesla's current one doesn't count; it will only count when it actually ships without a steering wheel or when people are actually allowed to use it while sleeping.
- hwillis 2y ago
  You misunderstand battery specs. It's a 13 string (more commonly, 13s) battery- a string is a number of cells wired in series. By convention that's a 48 volt battery, which matches with the 54 volt charger. In total that's a 421 watt-hour battery, for an average power of ~210 watts over 2 hours. When you connect 2 9000 mAh cells in series, the resulting battery has 2x the voltage but the same mAh capacity. In parallel, the battery has the same voltage but 2x the mAh. > My expectation on timescale is that genuinely general-purpose robots will need at least as much compute as a self-driving car (possibly more, that's a minimum), and have at most 1/10th the available power to do that (because they're physically smaller). This seems logically flawed: 1. A car travels hundreds of miles from home. Why would a robot walk more than a while from a transport or home base? At short distances, if you truly need that power, it probably makes more sense to stream data/video over a direct low-latency connection. Long distance networking has a latency comparable to camera frame time, but even a normal wifi router can keep a lower latency than human nerve delay. 2. Humanoid robots will never be running at 85 mph past a bunch of people. They probably don't need to have the same compute throughput as a car, and definitely don't need to have the same reaction time.

modeless 2y ago

I'm pretty sure that $16k is aspirational at this point. See "Contact us for the real price" here: https://shop.unitree.com/products/unitree-g1 https://shop.unitree.com/products/unitree-g1 I've heard that the real price is more like $35k. And you probably want options that increase the price more. For example on one of their dog robots I believe the base price doesn't include detailed control over the limbs, so you can only use their included software to walk it around. Still though, even the higher price is pretty good. Hard to see how China doesn't dominate humanoids given their manufacturing advantage and the sheer number of humanoid companies there now. Dozens!

alsodumb 2y ago
Someone I know got it recently. If you're getting with the API and all the sensors it was close to 60k including customs and all of that.
- anonzzzies 2y ago
  I would buy that today if the battery life was not abysmal. It is though; that is, at least for me, a far larger issue than all else. We cannot make laptops or phones work an entire day; robots/drones are measured in minutes.
  - modeless 2y ago
    What would you use it for that needs long battery life?
    - anonzzzies 2y ago
      Shopping (which takes hours where I live), picking olives (it will take forever if you have to hop into the charger every 15 minutes), carrying my backpack on walks etc.
      - ben_w 2y ago
        For shopping, surely the best robotic option are the various things the huge warehouses use, rather than havingthan a humanoid going around a store meant for humans? Both the things that look like Roombas and all these: https://youtu.be/ssZ_8cqfBlE?si=9mCtiKKkk_N9Uk7z https://youtu.be/ssZ_8cqfBlE?si=9mCtiKKkk_N9Uk7z No single consumer would buy all that, but the retailers can.
        stubish 2y ago
        The most overall efficient method is robotizing the store and deliveries, yes. Which a consumer is powerless to do. But if a consumer can buy a generalized household robot, it becomes cheaper the more tasks it can perform, amortizing the cost over the total work done. A generalized household robot will become practical when it becomes cheaper than hiring staff or carers. There is most certainly a market with the elderly and others requiring assistance for a robot capable of going around stores meant for humans.
      - nonameiguess 2y ago
        Are there not bigger constraints than battery life to a robot being able to do your shopping for you? It can't drive, public transit probably won't let a robot ride it, it can walk but it'll take forever. If it gets hit by a vehicle while walking, is the vehicle driver even committing a crime? Do you get reimbursed? Is the robot insurable? Do you owe the driver for damaging their car? If it gets to the store at all, will it be let in? If the store allows robots to enter, how is it supposed to pay? Robot's don't own bank accounts, so it has to prove it has the legal ability to use your account. Does this thing have Apple Pay and Google Pay integration built into it? You surely can't just give it cash or your physical credit card and hope that no one notices and steals it. Would a cashier even let a robot use a card that is supposed to be tied to a human identity? How do you authorize that? How does the robot prove it belongs to you? For that matter, is there anything stopping a person from taking it and factory resetting? I tried to search for both "anti theft" and "theft" on that seller website and nothing came up. Maybe search is just broken for me? These are prominent features of mobile computing devices, cars, generally anything reasonably expensive you might intentionally or unintentionally leave in public unattended. Apparently the site has an AI assistant, so I asked it. It said: > Based on the provided context information from Unitree Technology, there is no specific mention of anti-theft features for the robots produced by Unitree Technology. The focus of the information is primarily on the various modes, functionalities, and control mechanisms of the robots, such as Zero Torque Mode, Damping Mode, Seating Mode, Ready Mode, Motion Mode, Standing Mode, Dance Mode, and Debug Mode. Additionally, the information covers services provided by the robots, including basic services, AI Sport Services, Normal Sport Services, Image Services, Network Services, and SLAM Services. > Therefore, based on the available information, it can be concluded that there is no explicit reference to anti-theft features in the description of the robots produced by Unitree Technology. For detailed information on any anti-theft features or security measures, it is recommended to consult Unitree’s official resources or customer support for more specific details. In typical AI fashion, that's an extremely verbose way of saying "no, there are no anti-theft features."

demarq 2y ago

Nope the price is not “up”. For reference the spot robot from Boston dynamics starts at 74k usd. So you could literally have a team of humanoids for the price of a spot.

ben_w 2y ago

The Unitree links claim a 9000mAh battery will last it 2 hours; I don't know the voltage, but even at 5.5 V cells, that's only about 25 W average power consumption. I find this difficult to believe, both because that's a very low power draw and because that would be penny-pinching on battery capacity. My expectation on timescale is that genuinely general-purpose robots will need at least as much compute as a self-driving car (possibly more, that's a minimum), and have at most 1/10th the available power to do that (because they're physically smaller). Between algorithmic improvements and Koomey's law, I think this will take at least 5 years between any given category of customer being able to afford no-steering-wheel-needed self driving cars, and the equivalent for androids. Given the Waymos were doing geo-fenced cars with no safety drivers in the vehicles in 2017 (but still had an employee in the back with access to an emergency stop button)*, this gap is compatible with the recent press releases and youtube videos going around about robotics — but as nobody has yet started actually shipping this level of self-driving cars directly to end users**, my only guess for personal general-purpose domestic androids is: some time after 2030 as a minimum, but probably later than that. * https://phys.org/news/2017-11-waymo-autonomous-vans-human-drivers.html https://phys.org/news/2017-11-waymo-autonomous-vans-human-dr... ** No, Tesla's current one doesn't count; it will only count when it actually ships without a steering wheel or when people are actually allowed to use it while sleeping.

hwillis 2y ago
You misunderstand battery specs. It's a 13 string (more commonly, 13s) battery- a string is a number of cells wired in series. By convention that's a 48 volt battery, which matches with the 54 volt charger. In total that's a 421 watt-hour battery, for an average power of ~210 watts over 2 hours. When you connect 2 9000 mAh cells in series, the resulting battery has 2x the voltage but the same mAh capacity. In parallel, the battery has the same voltage but 2x the mAh. > My expectation on timescale is that genuinely general-purpose robots will need at least as much compute as a self-driving car (possibly more, that's a minimum), and have at most 1/10th the available power to do that (because they're physically smaller). This seems logically flawed: 1. A car travels hundreds of miles from home. Why would a robot walk more than a while from a transport or home base? At short distances, if you truly need that power, it probably makes more sense to stream data/video over a direct low-latency connection. Long distance networking has a latency comparable to camera frame time, but even a normal wifi router can keep a lower latency than human nerve delay. 2. Humanoid robots will never be running at 85 mph past a bunch of people. They probably don't need to have the same compute throughput as a car, and definitely don't need to have the same reaction time.