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I really wish this wasn't the shocking revelation it is, but holy fuck, a ton of people just refuse to do this. I've done it all my life, personal and professi

I really wish this wasn't the shocking revelation it is, but holy fuck, a ton of people just refuse to do this. I've done it all my life, personal and professional. I will (not happily, but I will) explain how I fucked up, and why. But similar to your experience, this catches people completely off guard. They don't expect it and I know why, because in my interactions in turn with people who also, categorically, fucked up: they will NEVER admit it. Most people will die on the hill of not just owning a simple fucking mistake and it's so bonkers to witness. Like... it's fine. You're human. You made a human error. Just like... acknowledge it so we can get on with whatever?

jaredhallen 2y ago
Heck, I'll do it happily. I don't enjoy screwing up, but owning your mistakes is the first step to improvement.
feurio 2y ago
I can't think of many better ways to demonstrate to your colleagues and corporate overlords that you are worthy of their trust than to readily hold up your hands if you've screwed up. So long as you're not so incompetent that you're repeatedly doing stupid stuff or cynically causing issues so that you can make yourself look virtuous by owning up, of course.
- ricksunny 2y ago
  In corporate context, admitting exernally-facing liability too easily violates executives' fiduciary responsibility to shareholders. For incentives aligning, need to figure out how to unravel that beasty.
  - ocdtrekkie 2y ago
    On the contrary, I think it can be sold as a PR win: Think about how many companies torch customer goodwill by making a bad decision and then doubling and tripling down on it for months (before backpedaling and losing a ton of customers anyways).
    - TeMPOraL 2y ago
      I don't know, but I'd hazard a guess: not many? Or rather, plenty do, but they don't lose much customers - any company worth their salt is positioned to screw over their users, unintentionally or otherwise, with little to no consequences to its business.
      - ricksunny 2y ago
        Unfortunate but true.
ipython 2y ago
It’s so refreshing when people do this and it totally disarms most people who are angry with you. I also find it effective when talking to people that may not be angry at me specifically, but angry at the company I work for. I may not have written the code that fucked up, but I certainly can apologize on behalf of the company and empathize with the user. I’ve found when I do this I’m able to quickly get to a solution rather than degrade further into finger pointing.
- cm11 2y ago
  Fwiw, I don't see "disarming" as a particular goal or win. It's neutral maybe. It might even be a bit unjust if we think the aggrieved is owed some form of recompense. I guess my framing of these things goes something like: * Person A made an error that made things worse for Person B * A sorta owes B now. Could be A making up for the error—like if A knocked over B's coffee, A could get them a new one. Or another, perhaps disagreeable, sorta justice is B now getting to do something back to A—like B knocking over A's coffee, or just cursing at A for a bit. * These things would put them back to even. I feel several comments are thinking of "owning the mistake" primarily as a tool to neutralize B's ability to get back to even. This, rather than owning it to take responsibility or just because it's honest. Saying we're "owning our mistake" is not owning our mistake. The point is to know you were in the wrong—whether that's by introspecting on it, having to buy an extra coffee that day, or getting cursed at.
  - kelnos 2y ago
    I think maybe you're thinking it in the wrong way? If A immediately owns up and apologizes, B not getting into a frenzy of swear words is not only good for A, but it's good for B, too (unnecessary stress and getting-worked-up is probably not really good for us!). Clearly if they were still upset (despite the apology), they might still feel the need to yell and vent a bit, and if they do, perhaps they will. But if they don't, then likely the acknowledgement of fault and apology has been appreciated, and B has gotten out of it what they need to. For something like knocking over a coffee, certainly, the knocker owes the knockee a new coffee, and acknowledging fault and apologizing is the first step to getting there. (B retaliating by knocking over A's coffee is always going to be unproductive and childish, even if A is unrepentant and rude about it.) I agree that just saying that you own your mistake isn't enough; owning it means doing the best you can to make amends. But sometimes the person you wronged is fine with just an acknowledgement and an apology. For example, if someone knocked over my coffee, and it seemed like a genuine mistake (that is, it wasn't because the person was being careless or negligent), I probably would accept an apology but decline a new coffee. The apology would be enough for me. Not saying that it would be for everyone, but people are different.
D-Coder 2y ago
Being a programmer has made this a lot easier for me. The average line of code that I type has three typos and one syntax error, so I'm accustomed to making mistakes (and fixing them).
rendx 2y ago
Typically such people were punished severely for admitting mistakes as a child, while lying about it and pretending nothing happened was "fine" and got them off the hook.

jaredhallen 2y ago

Heck, I'll do it happily. I don't enjoy screwing up, but owning your mistakes is the first step to improvement.

feurio 2y ago

I can't think of many better ways to demonstrate to your colleagues and corporate overlords that you are worthy of their trust than to readily hold up your hands if you've screwed up. So long as you're not so incompetent that you're repeatedly doing stupid stuff or cynically causing issues so that you can make yourself look virtuous by owning up, of course.

ricksunny 2y ago
In corporate context, admitting exernally-facing liability too easily violates executives' fiduciary responsibility to shareholders. For incentives aligning, need to figure out how to unravel that beasty.
- ocdtrekkie 2y ago
  On the contrary, I think it can be sold as a PR win: Think about how many companies torch customer goodwill by making a bad decision and then doubling and tripling down on it for months (before backpedaling and losing a ton of customers anyways).
  - TeMPOraL 2y ago
    I don't know, but I'd hazard a guess: not many? Or rather, plenty do, but they don't lose much customers - any company worth their salt is positioned to screw over their users, unintentionally or otherwise, with little to no consequences to its business.
    - ricksunny 2y ago
      Unfortunate but true.

ipython 2y ago

It’s so refreshing when people do this and it totally disarms most people who are angry with you. I also find it effective when talking to people that may not be angry at me specifically, but angry at the company I work for. I may not have written the code that fucked up, but I certainly can apologize on behalf of the company and empathize with the user. I’ve found when I do this I’m able to quickly get to a solution rather than degrade further into finger pointing.

cm11 2y ago
Fwiw, I don't see "disarming" as a particular goal or win. It's neutral maybe. It might even be a bit unjust if we think the aggrieved is owed some form of recompense. I guess my framing of these things goes something like: * Person A made an error that made things worse for Person B * A sorta owes B now. Could be A making up for the error—like if A knocked over B's coffee, A could get them a new one. Or another, perhaps disagreeable, sorta justice is B now getting to do something back to A—like B knocking over A's coffee, or just cursing at A for a bit. * These things would put them back to even. I feel several comments are thinking of "owning the mistake" primarily as a tool to neutralize B's ability to get back to even. This, rather than owning it to take responsibility or just because it's honest. Saying we're "owning our mistake" is not owning our mistake. The point is to know you were in the wrong—whether that's by introspecting on it, having to buy an extra coffee that day, or getting cursed at.
- kelnos 2y ago
  I think maybe you're thinking it in the wrong way? If A immediately owns up and apologizes, B not getting into a frenzy of swear words is not only good for A, but it's good for B, too (unnecessary stress and getting-worked-up is probably not really good for us!). Clearly if they were still upset (despite the apology), they might still feel the need to yell and vent a bit, and if they do, perhaps they will. But if they don't, then likely the acknowledgement of fault and apology has been appreciated, and B has gotten out of it what they need to. For something like knocking over a coffee, certainly, the knocker owes the knockee a new coffee, and acknowledging fault and apologizing is the first step to getting there. (B retaliating by knocking over A's coffee is always going to be unproductive and childish, even if A is unrepentant and rude about it.) I agree that just saying that you own your mistake isn't enough; owning it means doing the best you can to make amends. But sometimes the person you wronged is fine with just an acknowledgement and an apology. For example, if someone knocked over my coffee, and it seemed like a genuine mistake (that is, it wasn't because the person was being careless or negligent), I probably would accept an apology but decline a new coffee. The apology would be enough for me. Not saying that it would be for everyone, but people are different.

D-Coder 2y ago

Being a programmer has made this a lot easier for me. The average line of code that I type has three typos and one syntax error, so I'm accustomed to making mistakes (and fixing them).

rendx 2y ago

Typically such people were punished severely for admitting mistakes as a child, while lying about it and pretending nothing happened was "fine" and got them off the hook.