4 ms·

Because according to Japanese law, in most of the scenarios, the full price, to your best ability, has to be presented to the potential customer. Same goes for

Because according to Japanese law, in most of the scenarios, the full price, to your best ability, has to be presented to the potential customer. Same goes for Australia, if I recall correctly. No clue about Denmark, I'm sorry. But assuming it's similar over there as well. It's not that NA is the only one susceptible to A/B testing. It's more of a - it's-grey-area-to-illegal to not show full prices outside of NA.

mulmen 2y ago
Huh, I find that very surprising. Are the estimates gamed at all? Is there any rule around how accurate they have to be?
- tokioyoyo 2y ago
  You just put your postal code and it shows all prices according to your municipality, it will be as exact as you can get. Just go to amazon.jp, it should have a text input somewhere for your postal code to calculate the tax. In terms of gaming, hmm… I guess, you could add wrong municipality’s taxes when you show the original price, and switch over at the checkout. But my assumption is that would be deemed illegal, as you are knowingly misleading the customer. Some in person stores still try a bit to mislead you by putting the full price in smaller font (like including the consumption tax), and exclude it over it in the bigger font. But I can still accept that, as I am informed about the full price somehow.
  - mulmen 2y ago
    Ok well obviously if you have the address the correct calculation can be made. That’s consistent with the behavior in the US. What is displayed for price before you put in postal code? What price do generic banner or TV ads display?
    - tokioyoyo 2y ago
      My guess is approximate (average?) tax. I'm currently outside of Japan, by default Amazon shows me the price in Yen and says it can't deliver to me. When I put down the postal code in Tokyo, shows the same amount. Probably takes the biggest city's tax rate when it can't determine it through geolocation.
      - mulmen 2y ago
        What about billboards or banner ads? When an ISP in Japan wants to advertise their service do they include a price on the billboard? What you describe sounds like the same thing that happens in the US. So what's special about Australia, Japan, and Denmark as you stated earlier?
        tokioyoyo 2y ago
        Why wouldn’t they? Major ones are electronic, and you know the areas you are putting up your ads in, so you include the tax in it. You go to the store, sales tax either included in the price, or written in smaller font with the tax included price. It actually happens in NA for specific industries as well! If you buy a flight from Google flights without making any additional purchases, you will get the sticker price because airfare display is regulated to a certain degree. Except in Japan and other countries, almost all display prices have to include local taxes. It’s a solved problem, but there’s no political appetite for it in US/Canada because it will hurt the sales.
        mulmen 2y ago
        Not sure how telco taxes work in Japan but it would be impossible to advertise an accurate tax-included price in my city because not all the residents of the metro area have the same tax structure. Zip code isn't enough. The full address is required. So TV and print advertisements are pre-tax. I don't see how it could work any other way.
throwaway2037 2y ago
> Because according to Japanese law, in most of the scenarios, the full price, to your best ability, has to be presented to the potential customer. Are you sure? When I shop in Japan, it seems like about 50/50 where they have sales tax included, or not. However, the price tag will be clear if the price includes sales tax or not.
- tokioyoyo 2y ago
  Yes. Source: https://www.nta.go.jp/taxes/shiraberu/taxanswer/shohi/6902.htm#:~:text=%E6%A6%82%E8%A6%81,%E3%81%93%E3%81%A8%E3%82%92%E7%BE%A9%E5%8B%99%E4%BB%98%E3%81%91%E3%82%8B%E3%82%82%E3%81%AE%E3%81%A7%E3%81%99%E3%80%82 https://www.nta.go.jp/taxes/shiraberu/taxanswer/shohi/6902.h... I agree, there are a lot of cases where they don't show the full prices. Especially in the recent years when they've been changing the consumption tax rapidly, and allowing shops to have some leeway. But online prices, almost everywhere, include tax. Even Shopify forces JP merchants to display them while selling in the area.

mulmen 2y ago

Huh, I find that very surprising. Are the estimates gamed at all? Is there any rule around how accurate they have to be?

tokioyoyo 2y ago
You just put your postal code and it shows all prices according to your municipality, it will be as exact as you can get. Just go to amazon.jp, it should have a text input somewhere for your postal code to calculate the tax. In terms of gaming, hmm… I guess, you could add wrong municipality’s taxes when you show the original price, and switch over at the checkout. But my assumption is that would be deemed illegal, as you are knowingly misleading the customer. Some in person stores still try a bit to mislead you by putting the full price in smaller font (like including the consumption tax), and exclude it over it in the bigger font. But I can still accept that, as I am informed about the full price somehow.
- mulmen 2y ago
  Ok well obviously if you have the address the correct calculation can be made. That’s consistent with the behavior in the US. What is displayed for price before you put in postal code? What price do generic banner or TV ads display?
  - tokioyoyo 2y ago
    My guess is approximate (average?) tax. I'm currently outside of Japan, by default Amazon shows me the price in Yen and says it can't deliver to me. When I put down the postal code in Tokyo, shows the same amount. Probably takes the biggest city's tax rate when it can't determine it through geolocation.
    - mulmen 2y ago
      What about billboards or banner ads? When an ISP in Japan wants to advertise their service do they include a price on the billboard? What you describe sounds like the same thing that happens in the US. So what's special about Australia, Japan, and Denmark as you stated earlier?
      - tokioyoyo 2y ago
        Why wouldn’t they? Major ones are electronic, and you know the areas you are putting up your ads in, so you include the tax in it. You go to the store, sales tax either included in the price, or written in smaller font with the tax included price. It actually happens in NA for specific industries as well! If you buy a flight from Google flights without making any additional purchases, you will get the sticker price because airfare display is regulated to a certain degree. Except in Japan and other countries, almost all display prices have to include local taxes. It’s a solved problem, but there’s no political appetite for it in US/Canada because it will hurt the sales.
        mulmen 2y ago
        Not sure how telco taxes work in Japan but it would be impossible to advertise an accurate tax-included price in my city because not all the residents of the metro area have the same tax structure. Zip code isn't enough. The full address is required. So TV and print advertisements are pre-tax. I don't see how it could work any other way.

throwaway2037 2y ago

> Because according to Japanese law, in most of the scenarios, the full price, to your best ability, has to be presented to the potential customer. Are you sure? When I shop in Japan, it seems like about 50/50 where they have sales tax included, or not. However, the price tag will be clear if the price includes sales tax or not.

tokioyoyo 2y ago
Yes. Source: https://www.nta.go.jp/taxes/shiraberu/taxanswer/shohi/6902.htm#:~:text=%E6%A6%82%E8%A6%81,%E3%81%93%E3%81%A8%E3%82%92%E7%BE%A9%E5%8B%99%E4%BB%98%E3%81%91%E3%82%8B%E3%82%82%E3%81%AE%E3%81%A7%E3%81%99%E3%80%82 https://www.nta.go.jp/taxes/shiraberu/taxanswer/shohi/6902.h... I agree, there are a lot of cases where they don't show the full prices. Especially in the recent years when they've been changing the consumption tax rapidly, and allowing shops to have some leeway. But online prices, almost everywhere, include tax. Even Shopify forces JP merchants to display them while selling in the area.