5 ms·

Or, just get rid of sales tax anyway. It is the 2nd or 3rd time the same money has been taxed, depending on how you view it, and it's pretty ridiculous that a p

by Alupis 2y ago

Or, just get rid of sales tax anyway. It is the 2nd or 3rd time the same money has been taxed, depending on how you view it, and it's pretty ridiculous that a person with $100 in their bank account (post-taxes) still does not have the equivalent of $100 of purchasing power.

mulmen 2y ago
It’s the transaction that is taxed, not the money. By your logic I shouldn’t have to pay income tax on sales because my customers already paid income tax. We could simply the whole thing by just making dollar bills worth $0.66.
- Alupis 2y ago
  > By your logic I shouldn’t have to pay income tax on sales because my customers already paid income tax. People often believe that because something has been for a while, it must always be so. Not too long ago we didn't have sales tax (introduced in the 1950's), and things were fine. You are taxed on your income, and you are taxed on your expenses. If you invest that money or do anything productive with it, it gets taxed again. That's such a ridiculous idea - pick one and stick with it. Make it whatever percentage it needs to be, and that's it. When someone looks at their bank account - that ought to be the final word on how much purchasing power that individual has. It shouldn't be handwavy minus 7-12%. Mind you, that's 7-12% in addition to the 20-30% you already paid.
  - mulmen 2y ago
    Only the income on the investment is taxed though. The capital isn’t double taxed. I’d love to abolish regressive sales taxes and return to 1950s level progressive income tax rates. You have my vote.
    - Alupis 2y ago
      Progressive income tax is also silly. Just because you earn more money than someone else doesn't mean you derive more benefits from the government. The idea of "Paying what you can afford" is BS everywhere it's been implemented - from school tuition to soccer camp to taxes. Everyone feels burned and like the "others" aren't paying what they should be. Federal taxes should be a flat percentage, no deductions, no credits, no so-called "loop holes"... nothing. Every citizen pays the same percentage (whatever it needs to be). The incumbent tax apparatus would never allow us to have something so simple, though. For a nation that got it's start in no small part due to being over-taxed, it's very interesting to see just how much tax shenanigans we tolerate today.
      - mulmen 2y ago
        Our philosophies differ. > Progressive income tax is also silly. Just because you earn more money than someone else doesn't mean you derive more benefits from the government. I think "pay what you can afford" is fair because the only way to make half a million dollars (or more) a year is to disproportionately reap the benefits of society. Marginal income tax is fair in the sense that everyone does pay the same. Your $11,001st dollar is taxed the same as everyone else, just like your $578,126th dollar. If you don't want to pay the highest rates then take advantage of deductions (aka incentives aka loopholes) and invest in creating jobs. > Everyone feels burned and like the "others" aren't paying what they should be. I definitely don't feel this way and I am happy to pay my marginal rates. I just don't think they go far enough. > Federal taxes should be a flat percentage, no deductions, no credits, no so-called "loop holes"... nothing. Every citizen pays the same percentage (whatever it needs to be). Do you propose a flat income tax or a flat wealth tax? Should capital gains be taxed as income? > For a nation that got it's start in no small part due to being over-taxed, it's very interesting to see just how much tax shenanigans we tolerate today. My understanding was that the issue was lack of representation or ability to levy local taxes but I admit my knowledge of that point in history is weak. The America of today is certainly different from revolutionary times. I would say it is better.
        Alupis 2y ago
        > disproportionately reap the benefits of society This is where we fundamentally disagree. You buy products because you want/like them. The people who make them are not disproportionately reaping benefits of society - they are reaping benefits of creating productive and desirable products. This view flirts with the idea that people "extract" wealth from the public, and that people are taken advantage of and/or manipulated into buying things. > I definitely don't feel this way and I am happy to pay my marginal rates. I just don't think they go far enough. People universally feel the government (local, state, federal) overwhelmingly wastes their tax money - yet so many people demand others pay more of their earned income to this uncaring ineffective machine. Tax receipts will never be enough for the government, and some people will continue to advocate plowing more of other people's money into the dark abyss. That's madness. > Do you propose a flat income tax or a flat wealth tax? Should capital gains be taxed as income? I propose a straight flat income tax percentage, without any deductions, credits, anything. While the percentage is fixed, the dollar amount obviously scales with income. Things like capital gains are solved this way by taxing the actual income you generated from the investments. I'm making up numbers, but say it's 20%. No matter if you earned $1 of income, or $1,000,000 - you pay 20%.

by Alupis 2y ago

mulmen 2y ago

It’s the transaction that is taxed, not the money. By your logic I shouldn’t have to pay income tax on sales because my customers already paid income tax. We could simply the whole thing by just making dollar bills worth $0.66.

Alupis 2y ago
> By your logic I shouldn’t have to pay income tax on sales because my customers already paid income tax. People often believe that because something has been for a while, it must always be so. Not too long ago we didn't have sales tax (introduced in the 1950's), and things were fine. You are taxed on your income, and you are taxed on your expenses. If you invest that money or do anything productive with it, it gets taxed again. That's such a ridiculous idea - pick one and stick with it. Make it whatever percentage it needs to be, and that's it. When someone looks at their bank account - that ought to be the final word on how much purchasing power that individual has. It shouldn't be handwavy minus 7-12%. Mind you, that's 7-12% in addition to the 20-30% you already paid.
- mulmen 2y ago
  Only the income on the investment is taxed though. The capital isn’t double taxed. I’d love to abolish regressive sales taxes and return to 1950s level progressive income tax rates. You have my vote.
  - Alupis 2y ago
    Progressive income tax is also silly. Just because you earn more money than someone else doesn't mean you derive more benefits from the government. The idea of "Paying what you can afford" is BS everywhere it's been implemented - from school tuition to soccer camp to taxes. Everyone feels burned and like the "others" aren't paying what they should be. Federal taxes should be a flat percentage, no deductions, no credits, no so-called "loop holes"... nothing. Every citizen pays the same percentage (whatever it needs to be). The incumbent tax apparatus would never allow us to have something so simple, though. For a nation that got it's start in no small part due to being over-taxed, it's very interesting to see just how much tax shenanigans we tolerate today.
    - mulmen 2y ago
      Our philosophies differ. > Progressive income tax is also silly. Just because you earn more money than someone else doesn't mean you derive more benefits from the government. I think "pay what you can afford" is fair because the only way to make half a million dollars (or more) a year is to disproportionately reap the benefits of society. Marginal income tax is fair in the sense that everyone does pay the same. Your $11,001st dollar is taxed the same as everyone else, just like your $578,126th dollar. If you don't want to pay the highest rates then take advantage of deductions (aka incentives aka loopholes) and invest in creating jobs. > Everyone feels burned and like the "others" aren't paying what they should be. I definitely don't feel this way and I am happy to pay my marginal rates. I just don't think they go far enough. > Federal taxes should be a flat percentage, no deductions, no credits, no so-called "loop holes"... nothing. Every citizen pays the same percentage (whatever it needs to be). Do you propose a flat income tax or a flat wealth tax? Should capital gains be taxed as income? > For a nation that got it's start in no small part due to being over-taxed, it's very interesting to see just how much tax shenanigans we tolerate today. My understanding was that the issue was lack of representation or ability to levy local taxes but I admit my knowledge of that point in history is weak. The America of today is certainly different from revolutionary times. I would say it is better.
      - Alupis 2y ago
        > disproportionately reap the benefits of society This is where we fundamentally disagree. You buy products because you want/like them. The people who make them are not disproportionately reaping benefits of society - they are reaping benefits of creating productive and desirable products. This view flirts with the idea that people "extract" wealth from the public, and that people are taken advantage of and/or manipulated into buying things. > I definitely don't feel this way and I am happy to pay my marginal rates. I just don't think they go far enough. People universally feel the government (local, state, federal) overwhelmingly wastes their tax money - yet so many people demand others pay more of their earned income to this uncaring ineffective machine. Tax receipts will never be enough for the government, and some people will continue to advocate plowing more of other people's money into the dark abyss. That's madness. > Do you propose a flat income tax or a flat wealth tax? Should capital gains be taxed as income? I propose a straight flat income tax percentage, without any deductions, credits, anything. While the percentage is fixed, the dollar amount obviously scales with income. Things like capital gains are solved this way by taxing the actual income you generated from the investments. I'm making up numbers, but say it's 20%. No matter if you earned $1 of income, or $1,000,000 - you pay 20%.