7 ms·

I will take the blurb which says taxes are an approximate calculation based on web browsing data available, vs, no taxes shown. We're gate keeping good features

by websap 2y ago

I will take the blurb which says taxes are an approximate calculation based on web browsing data available, vs, no taxes shown. We're gate keeping good features for large % of users over some edge cases.

crazygringo 2y ago
Gate keeping what? You know where you live, you know what your local sales tax is. The current system works fine.
- lxgr 2y ago
  It works ok-ish. It works significantly better in almost every other country in the world. Yay for status quo bias! > You know where you live, you know what your local sales tax is. No, I in fact don't know, because I have better things to do than to keep up with what my city and state have extended sales tax to this month, what carveouts exist ("no sales tax on unhealthy snacks except ice cream" and stuff like that) etc. And there is absolutely no excuse for in-person stores that do, in fact, have perfect a priori knowledge of all of this.
Alupis 2y ago
Or, just get rid of sales tax anyway. It is the 2nd or 3rd time the same money has been taxed, depending on how you view it, and it's pretty ridiculous that a person with $100 in their bank account (post-taxes) still does not have the equivalent of $100 of purchasing power.
- mulmen 2y ago
  It’s the transaction that is taxed, not the money. By your logic I shouldn’t have to pay income tax on sales because my customers already paid income tax. We could simply the whole thing by just making dollar bills worth $0.66.
  - Alupis 2y ago
    > By your logic I shouldn’t have to pay income tax on sales because my customers already paid income tax. People often believe that because something has been for a while, it must always be so. Not too long ago we didn't have sales tax (introduced in the 1950's), and things were fine. You are taxed on your income, and you are taxed on your expenses. If you invest that money or do anything productive with it, it gets taxed again. That's such a ridiculous idea - pick one and stick with it. Make it whatever percentage it needs to be, and that's it. When someone looks at their bank account - that ought to be the final word on how much purchasing power that individual has. It shouldn't be handwavy minus 7-12%. Mind you, that's 7-12% in addition to the 20-30% you already paid.
    - mulmen 2y ago
      Only the income on the investment is taxed though. The capital isn’t double taxed. I’d love to abolish regressive sales taxes and return to 1950s level progressive income tax rates. You have my vote.
      - Alupis 2y ago
        Progressive income tax is also silly. Just because you earn more money than someone else doesn't mean you derive more benefits from the government. The idea of "Paying what you can afford" is BS everywhere it's been implemented - from school tuition to soccer camp to taxes. Everyone feels burned and like the "others" aren't paying what they should be. Federal taxes should be a flat percentage, no deductions, no credits, no so-called "loop holes"... nothing. Every citizen pays the same percentage (whatever it needs to be). The incumbent tax apparatus would never allow us to have something so simple, though. For a nation that got it's start in no small part due to being over-taxed, it's very interesting to see just how much tax shenanigans we tolerate today.
        mulmen 2y ago
        Our philosophies differ. > Progressive income tax is also silly. Just because you earn more money than someone else doesn't mean you derive more benefits from the government. I think "pay what you can afford" is fair because the only way to make half a million dollars (or more) a year is to disproportionately reap the benefits of society. Marginal income tax is fair in the sense that everyone does pay the same. Your $11,001st dollar is taxed the same as everyone else, just like your $578,126th dollar. If you don't want to pay the highest rates then take advantage of deductions (aka incentives aka loopholes) and invest in creating jobs. > Everyone feels burned and like the "others" aren't paying what they should be. I definitely don't feel this way and I am happy to pay my marginal rates. I just don't think they go far enough. > Federal taxes should be a flat percentage, no deductions, no credits, no so-called "loop holes"... nothing. Every citizen pays the same percentage (whatever it needs to be). Do you propose a flat income tax or a flat wealth tax? Should capital gains be taxed as income? > For a nation that got it's start in no small part due to being over-taxed, it's very interesting to see just how much tax shenanigans we tolerate today. My understanding was that the issue was lack of representation or ability to levy local taxes but I admit my knowledge of that point in history is weak. The America of today is certainly different from revolutionary times. I would say it is better.
mulmen 2y ago
So currently they correctly advertise the pre-tax price but since that’s not the correct total price your proposal is to display an approximate price which is also not the correct total price. I don’t see how this reduces ambiguity.
- websap 2y ago
  A higher price is more accurate than the pretax price
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - mulmen 2y ago
    > A higher price is more accurate than the pretax price Well, no, it isn’t. Consider the Oregon/Washington border. An IP could bounce around there. Oregon has zero sales tax so the pre-tax price is literally correct for Oregon residents. Adding estimated tax will be less accurate. Similarly I could live in unincorporated King County such as White Center and not be subject to Seattle tax while still being subject to King County and Washington tax even though the other side of the street is Seattle. There’s a sugary drink tax in Seattle. The border is Roxbury. There’s a 7/11 on Roxbury in White Center. Should a 7/11 sandwich board on the Seattle side of the street across from that 7/11 advertise the price with or without that tax?
- lxgr 2y ago
  It's gonna be a much better ballpark number than the before-tax number is in almost all practical scenarios. So yes, I do think that would be a massive win compared to the status quo.
  - mulmen 2y ago
    Unless you live on the border of Oregon or Montana. Or in a city.
    - 2y ago

by websap 2y ago

crazygringo 2y ago

Gate keeping what? You know where you live, you know what your local sales tax is. The current system works fine.

lxgr 2y ago
It works ok-ish. It works significantly better in almost every other country in the world. Yay for status quo bias! > You know where you live, you know what your local sales tax is. No, I in fact don't know, because I have better things to do than to keep up with what my city and state have extended sales tax to this month, what carveouts exist ("no sales tax on unhealthy snacks except ice cream" and stuff like that) etc. And there is absolutely no excuse for in-person stores that do, in fact, have perfect a priori knowledge of all of this.

Alupis 2y ago

Or, just get rid of sales tax anyway. It is the 2nd or 3rd time the same money has been taxed, depending on how you view it, and it's pretty ridiculous that a person with $100 in their bank account (post-taxes) still does not have the equivalent of $100 of purchasing power.

mulmen 2y ago
It’s the transaction that is taxed, not the money. By your logic I shouldn’t have to pay income tax on sales because my customers already paid income tax. We could simply the whole thing by just making dollar bills worth $0.66.
- Alupis 2y ago
  > By your logic I shouldn’t have to pay income tax on sales because my customers already paid income tax. People often believe that because something has been for a while, it must always be so. Not too long ago we didn't have sales tax (introduced in the 1950's), and things were fine. You are taxed on your income, and you are taxed on your expenses. If you invest that money or do anything productive with it, it gets taxed again. That's such a ridiculous idea - pick one and stick with it. Make it whatever percentage it needs to be, and that's it. When someone looks at their bank account - that ought to be the final word on how much purchasing power that individual has. It shouldn't be handwavy minus 7-12%. Mind you, that's 7-12% in addition to the 20-30% you already paid.
  - mulmen 2y ago
    Only the income on the investment is taxed though. The capital isn’t double taxed. I’d love to abolish regressive sales taxes and return to 1950s level progressive income tax rates. You have my vote.
    - Alupis 2y ago
      Progressive income tax is also silly. Just because you earn more money than someone else doesn't mean you derive more benefits from the government. The idea of "Paying what you can afford" is BS everywhere it's been implemented - from school tuition to soccer camp to taxes. Everyone feels burned and like the "others" aren't paying what they should be. Federal taxes should be a flat percentage, no deductions, no credits, no so-called "loop holes"... nothing. Every citizen pays the same percentage (whatever it needs to be). The incumbent tax apparatus would never allow us to have something so simple, though. For a nation that got it's start in no small part due to being over-taxed, it's very interesting to see just how much tax shenanigans we tolerate today.
      - mulmen 2y ago
        Our philosophies differ. > Progressive income tax is also silly. Just because you earn more money than someone else doesn't mean you derive more benefits from the government. I think "pay what you can afford" is fair because the only way to make half a million dollars (or more) a year is to disproportionately reap the benefits of society. Marginal income tax is fair in the sense that everyone does pay the same. Your $11,001st dollar is taxed the same as everyone else, just like your $578,126th dollar. If you don't want to pay the highest rates then take advantage of deductions (aka incentives aka loopholes) and invest in creating jobs. > Everyone feels burned and like the "others" aren't paying what they should be. I definitely don't feel this way and I am happy to pay my marginal rates. I just don't think they go far enough. > Federal taxes should be a flat percentage, no deductions, no credits, no so-called "loop holes"... nothing. Every citizen pays the same percentage (whatever it needs to be). Do you propose a flat income tax or a flat wealth tax? Should capital gains be taxed as income? > For a nation that got it's start in no small part due to being over-taxed, it's very interesting to see just how much tax shenanigans we tolerate today. My understanding was that the issue was lack of representation or ability to levy local taxes but I admit my knowledge of that point in history is weak. The America of today is certainly different from revolutionary times. I would say it is better.

mulmen 2y ago

So currently they correctly advertise the pre-tax price but since that’s not the correct total price your proposal is to display an approximate price which is also not the correct total price. I don’t see how this reduces ambiguity.

websap 2y ago
A higher price is more accurate than the pretax price
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- mulmen 2y ago
  > A higher price is more accurate than the pretax price Well, no, it isn’t. Consider the Oregon/Washington border. An IP could bounce around there. Oregon has zero sales tax so the pre-tax price is literally correct for Oregon residents. Adding estimated tax will be less accurate. Similarly I could live in unincorporated King County such as White Center and not be subject to Seattle tax while still being subject to King County and Washington tax even though the other side of the street is Seattle. There’s a sugary drink tax in Seattle. The border is Roxbury. There’s a 7/11 on Roxbury in White Center. Should a 7/11 sandwich board on the Seattle side of the street across from that 7/11 advertise the price with or without that tax?
lxgr 2y ago
It's gonna be a much better ballpark number than the before-tax number is in almost all practical scenarios. So yes, I do think that would be a massive win compared to the status quo.
- mulmen 2y ago
  Unless you live on the border of Oregon or Montana. Or in a city.
  - 2y ago