5 ms·

Not likely; sales tax is extremely complicated in the US. There are 13,000 sales tax jurisdictions, and many of them have different and incompatible rules for t

Not likely; sales tax is extremely complicated in the US. There are 13,000 sales tax jurisdictions, and many of them have different and incompatible rules for things like sales tax nexus.

cyberax 2y ago
A business already has to take care of the sales tax. So they can just show it on the price tag.
- bluGill 2y ago
  No they cannot. Taxes are not uniform. Walmart probably won't deal with this, but in many states business (read farmers) do not pay sales tax on some items (read likely to be used on a farm) and so stores that want to sell to business will have the ability to verify you are a business to give that discount. It is worse for online where until you log in they have no clue what taxes will apply. If you are buying a gift for someone in a different area I don't know what tax rules apply but there is good odds they won't know until you get to the shipping information what the real taxes are.
  - cyberax 2y ago
    If you sell a widget in a store, you MUST be able to compute the sales tax. Otherwise, you can't sell it. And if you can do that, then you might as well print it on the price tag (along with pre-tax price if you want). No buts. Ditto for online, after you get the customer's ZIP code.
    - bluGill 2y ago
      You can't print the price on a price tag because different customer pay different prices.
      - cyberax 2y ago
        Bullshit. First, you absolutely CAN JUST PUT TWO PRICES on a price tag. Moreover, business customers (in a grocery shop, yeah right) can just get a discount at a point of sale.
    - kstrauser 2y ago
      My favorite example of this lunacy is the restaurant nearby that sells pies. If they box your pie for you to take home, it's a grocery item and not taxed. If they give you utensils to eat it in the store, it's a restaurant meal and therefore taxed. They literally can't know the price until you tell them whether you'd like a fork with it. Now, this restaurant works around it by having both prices listed, but I can imagine a million freaking variants of that for an online sale: "you have to pay our local taxes, but almost maybe yours, unless you check out on a Sunday between noon and 5PM, which is a tax holiday on your block (but not your neighbors' across the road), so understand that the price may change between when you add it to your cart and when you click the 'pay' button." I'm only a little bit exaggerating.
      - cyberax 2y ago
        Then put two freaking price tags: "pies to go" and "eat here". Problem solved. There are zero legitimate reasons not to show true prices.
        kstrauser 2y ago
        Stopped reading after the first paragraph, huh.
    - runako 2y ago
      > And if you can do that, then you might as well print it on the price tag (along with pre-tax price if you want). Fun fact: sales tax rates are not stable. Our state publishes quarterly tax changes at the county level; city-level changes are presumably too numerous for the state to publish in the same format. Inclusive pricing can obviously be done in-store, but it also more or less ensures that some of the items in your store will have incorrect prices some of the time.
      - FateOfNations 2y ago
        At least here in California, the state collects the sales tax on behalf of all the local jurisdictions, so they publish and update them all simultaneously (twice a year) and in the same format.
        runako 2y ago
        Interesting...there must be a state law that requires jurisdictions to synchronize any changes to sales tax rates to a single calendar.
        FateOfNations 2y ago
        Technically, jurisdictions could try to collect the taxes directly, but they generally lack the infrastructure for it, and it isn't feasible to set it up. Instead, they must play by the state's rules if they want the state to collect for them. Jurisdictions also can't customize exemptions; they can only add an incremental percentage amount to the existing general state sales tax. In general, it's in everyone's best interest to play along.
  - fn-mote 2y ago
    The issue with online sales is real, but customers exempt from sales tax could just have their final price lowered. That would be the opposite of the current situation. Since there are many fewer tax-exempt sales, and tax-exempt buyers are presumably more sophisticated and less price-sensitive, this would be a net win for customers.
  - maccard 2y ago
    > but in many states business (read farmers) do not pay sales tax on some items (read likely to be used on a farm) The legislation in most of europe clearly handles this - the price displayed is for the intended customer. If you go into B&Q (home depot equivalent), you'll see prices including sales tax. If you go next door to a timber merchant none of the prices have sales tax included. If you're a business, you don't pay the sales tax. The businesses know what their taxes are, and are required to have accurate accounts anyway. For those that are maybe numerically challenged - they'll never pay more than they see on the sticker. > It is worse for online where until you log in they have no clue what taxes will apply. Enter your shipping address to see pricing. Exactly the same as it is now. Give an estimate based on IP. Exactly how it works in Europe, which has the same problem.
joshuaissac 2y ago
I think legitster is suggesting that the sticker price on the product should be the price paid, rather than a uniform sales tax code. If the seller knows what to charge the buyer, then they know what they need to put on the sticker.
- runako 2y ago
  Local retailers would oppose this in very strong terms as a thumb on the scale in favor of online retailers. Online retailers would presumably still be able to show pricing before knowing a shipping address, so their pricing would be pre-tax. That would make the apparent price differential even greater, and on every item. I think this would make the marketplace less clear for consumers.
  - joshuaissac 2y ago
    Online retailers could be required to use the best available estimate of the user's location to calculate the tax, like they do for ads. So if they are logged in with an address on file, it could be that. If not, they could use geolocation, with a note that the tax is estimated. And let the user input a location in a box to show the exact tax.
    - runako 2y ago
      > they could use geolocation, with a note that the tax is estimated So we'd go from the current regime where the displayed price is wrong to another regime where the displayed price is wrong? Allegedly, something like 40%+ of Americans use VPNs. They would pretty much always see the wrong price. In practice, the ramification of this would be that your local indie retailers (where we are much less likely to be persistently logged in) would be forced to incorrectly show higher prices to a set of people, while the giant retailers who already have your billing info can show you 100% accurate pricing all the time, regardless of VPN. I don't see any clear wins in that scenario.
      - thehappypm 2y ago

Not likely; sales tax is extremely complicated in the US. There are 13,000 sales tax jurisdictions, and many of them have different and incompatible rules for things like sales tax nexus.

cyberax 2y ago

A business already has to take care of the sales tax. So they can just show it on the price tag.

bluGill 2y ago
No they cannot. Taxes are not uniform. Walmart probably won't deal with this, but in many states business (read farmers) do not pay sales tax on some items (read likely to be used on a farm) and so stores that want to sell to business will have the ability to verify you are a business to give that discount. It is worse for online where until you log in they have no clue what taxes will apply. If you are buying a gift for someone in a different area I don't know what tax rules apply but there is good odds they won't know until you get to the shipping information what the real taxes are.
- cyberax 2y ago
  If you sell a widget in a store, you MUST be able to compute the sales tax. Otherwise, you can't sell it. And if you can do that, then you might as well print it on the price tag (along with pre-tax price if you want). No buts. Ditto for online, after you get the customer's ZIP code.
  - bluGill 2y ago
    You can't print the price on a price tag because different customer pay different prices.
    - cyberax 2y ago
      Bullshit. First, you absolutely CAN JUST PUT TWO PRICES on a price tag. Moreover, business customers (in a grocery shop, yeah right) can just get a discount at a point of sale.
  - kstrauser 2y ago
    My favorite example of this lunacy is the restaurant nearby that sells pies. If they box your pie for you to take home, it's a grocery item and not taxed. If they give you utensils to eat it in the store, it's a restaurant meal and therefore taxed. They literally can't know the price until you tell them whether you'd like a fork with it. Now, this restaurant works around it by having both prices listed, but I can imagine a million freaking variants of that for an online sale: "you have to pay our local taxes, but almost maybe yours, unless you check out on a Sunday between noon and 5PM, which is a tax holiday on your block (but not your neighbors' across the road), so understand that the price may change between when you add it to your cart and when you click the 'pay' button." I'm only a little bit exaggerating.
    - cyberax 2y ago
      Then put two freaking price tags: "pies to go" and "eat here". Problem solved. There are zero legitimate reasons not to show true prices.
      - kstrauser 2y ago
        Stopped reading after the first paragraph, huh.
  - runako 2y ago
    > And if you can do that, then you might as well print it on the price tag (along with pre-tax price if you want). Fun fact: sales tax rates are not stable. Our state publishes quarterly tax changes at the county level; city-level changes are presumably too numerous for the state to publish in the same format. Inclusive pricing can obviously be done in-store, but it also more or less ensures that some of the items in your store will have incorrect prices some of the time.
    - FateOfNations 2y ago
      At least here in California, the state collects the sales tax on behalf of all the local jurisdictions, so they publish and update them all simultaneously (twice a year) and in the same format.
      - runako 2y ago
        Interesting...there must be a state law that requires jurisdictions to synchronize any changes to sales tax rates to a single calendar.
        FateOfNations 2y ago
        Technically, jurisdictions could try to collect the taxes directly, but they generally lack the infrastructure for it, and it isn't feasible to set it up. Instead, they must play by the state's rules if they want the state to collect for them. Jurisdictions also can't customize exemptions; they can only add an incremental percentage amount to the existing general state sales tax. In general, it's in everyone's best interest to play along.
- fn-mote 2y ago
  The issue with online sales is real, but customers exempt from sales tax could just have their final price lowered. That would be the opposite of the current situation. Since there are many fewer tax-exempt sales, and tax-exempt buyers are presumably more sophisticated and less price-sensitive, this would be a net win for customers.
- maccard 2y ago
  > but in many states business (read farmers) do not pay sales tax on some items (read likely to be used on a farm) The legislation in most of europe clearly handles this - the price displayed is for the intended customer. If you go into B&Q (home depot equivalent), you'll see prices including sales tax. If you go next door to a timber merchant none of the prices have sales tax included. If you're a business, you don't pay the sales tax. The businesses know what their taxes are, and are required to have accurate accounts anyway. For those that are maybe numerically challenged - they'll never pay more than they see on the sticker. > It is worse for online where until you log in they have no clue what taxes will apply. Enter your shipping address to see pricing. Exactly the same as it is now. Give an estimate based on IP. Exactly how it works in Europe, which has the same problem.

joshuaissac 2y ago

I think legitster is suggesting that the sticker price on the product should be the price paid, rather than a uniform sales tax code. If the seller knows what to charge the buyer, then they know what they need to put on the sticker.

runako 2y ago
Local retailers would oppose this in very strong terms as a thumb on the scale in favor of online retailers. Online retailers would presumably still be able to show pricing before knowing a shipping address, so their pricing would be pre-tax. That would make the apparent price differential even greater, and on every item. I think this would make the marketplace less clear for consumers.
- joshuaissac 2y ago
  Online retailers could be required to use the best available estimate of the user's location to calculate the tax, like they do for ads. So if they are logged in with an address on file, it could be that. If not, they could use geolocation, with a note that the tax is estimated. And let the user input a location in a box to show the exact tax.
  - runako 2y ago
    > they could use geolocation, with a note that the tax is estimated So we'd go from the current regime where the displayed price is wrong to another regime where the displayed price is wrong? Allegedly, something like 40%+ of Americans use VPNs. They would pretty much always see the wrong price. In practice, the ramification of this would be that your local indie retailers (where we are much less likely to be persistently logged in) would be forced to incorrectly show higher prices to a set of people, while the giant retailers who already have your billing info can show you 100% accurate pricing all the time, regardless of VPN. I don't see any clear wins in that scenario.
    - thehappypm 2y ago