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"The French people" and "French people" are subtly grammatically distinct. People is the plural of person but a people (singular) means a race or ethnicity.

kergonath 2y ago
> People is the plural of person but a people (singular) means a race or ethnicity. No. It means a group of individuals. What they have in common is being invested in how the country is run and having citizenship. It does not imply anything about genetic makeup, skin colour (race is such a useless concept), or ethnicity. There is zero ambiguity about that in French.
- whatshisface 2y ago
  I'm more than willing to accept anything you say about French, but I'm talking about - not an ambiguity - but an implication in English.
  - runarberg 2y ago
    People is used in international law which is often written in english, or otherwise translated to english. There it means exactly what your parent said. A group of individuals taken as a whole. It is often implied they have some shared culture, heritage, laws, language etc. It is never about race or ethnicity. A Kurdish person living in Norther Europe can belong to the Kurdish people on the grounds of the shared culture and heritage, and an Arab person that has lived in Erbil for over 20 years and has learned fluent Kurdish can also belong to the Kurdish people on the grounds of shared language, law, culture, etc. This is the reason taking children from of a group to be raised outside the group is considered a genocide. You are forcibly removing an child from its people, even though the child is 100% of the same ethnic makeup as the group.
jjk7 2y ago
When someone refers to "The X people", they are referring to the Nationality. Historically citizenship and nationality were interlinked, but they are separate. "The Irish people inhabit Ireland, as Irish Citizens" is not a tautology. Nationality does not require race or ethnicity; some nations require common descent (blood quantum). The French people do not have such requirements.
- whatshisface 2y ago
  >When someone refers to "The X people", they are referring to the Nationality. That's just not true. Here are some counterexamples: - The Kurdish people - The Jewish people - The Burman people Furthermore, "the Irish people" would be not be taken to include a German who moved there.
  - jjk7 2y ago
    Modern usage of language has really blurred the lines, and it is confusing. You are confusing 'State' vs 'Nation'. A nation does not need a legal entity to exist. 'Kurdish', 'Jewish', and 'Burman' are the literal names of the nation. Belonging to a nation is amongst the other members to determine, not me. If the Irish people consider an assimilated German to be Irish, so be it. A German who does not assimilate, would likely not be considered an 'an Irish person' but rather an 'Irish Citizen' or more correctly, 'A Citizen of Ireland'.
    - whatshisface 2y ago
      The Jewish people includes the diaspora, the Jewish state is Israel, and the Jewish nation is something that might have existed before Israel was recognized. A people (singular) is neither a nation nor a state. It's closest to a race or ethnicity. The Kurdish nation might exist, but it doesn't include the diaspora, while the Kurdish people would.

kergonath 2y ago

> People is the plural of person but a people (singular) means a race or ethnicity. No. It means a group of individuals. What they have in common is being invested in how the country is run and having citizenship. It does not imply anything about genetic makeup, skin colour (race is such a useless concept), or ethnicity. There is zero ambiguity about that in French.

whatshisface 2y ago
I'm more than willing to accept anything you say about French, but I'm talking about - not an ambiguity - but an implication in English.
- runarberg 2y ago
  People is used in international law which is often written in english, or otherwise translated to english. There it means exactly what your parent said. A group of individuals taken as a whole. It is often implied they have some shared culture, heritage, laws, language etc. It is never about race or ethnicity. A Kurdish person living in Norther Europe can belong to the Kurdish people on the grounds of the shared culture and heritage, and an Arab person that has lived in Erbil for over 20 years and has learned fluent Kurdish can also belong to the Kurdish people on the grounds of shared language, law, culture, etc. This is the reason taking children from of a group to be raised outside the group is considered a genocide. You are forcibly removing an child from its people, even though the child is 100% of the same ethnic makeup as the group.

jjk7 2y ago

When someone refers to "The X people", they are referring to the Nationality. Historically citizenship and nationality were interlinked, but they are separate. "The Irish people inhabit Ireland, as Irish Citizens" is not a tautology. Nationality does not require race or ethnicity; some nations require common descent (blood quantum). The French people do not have such requirements.

whatshisface 2y ago
>When someone refers to "The X people", they are referring to the Nationality. That's just not true. Here are some counterexamples: - The Kurdish people - The Jewish people - The Burman people Furthermore, "the Irish people" would be not be taken to include a German who moved there.
- jjk7 2y ago
  Modern usage of language has really blurred the lines, and it is confusing. You are confusing 'State' vs 'Nation'. A nation does not need a legal entity to exist. 'Kurdish', 'Jewish', and 'Burman' are the literal names of the nation. Belonging to a nation is amongst the other members to determine, not me. If the Irish people consider an assimilated German to be Irish, so be it. A German who does not assimilate, would likely not be considered an 'an Irish person' but rather an 'Irish Citizen' or more correctly, 'A Citizen of Ireland'.
  - whatshisface 2y ago
    The Jewish people includes the diaspora, the Jewish state is Israel, and the Jewish nation is something that might have existed before Israel was recognized. A people (singular) is neither a nation nor a state. It's closest to a race or ethnicity. The Kurdish nation might exist, but it doesn't include the diaspora, while the Kurdish people would.