4 ms·

> When should we require that firmware be free? Same as with any other requirement: when you can afford it. Slack's desktop client shouldn't require Electron

> When should we require that firmware be free? Same as with any other requirement: when you can afford it. Slack's desktop client shouldn't require Electron (making it unusable on low-end devices), but it does. They can get away with that requirement, because there's hardly any alternative client worth your effort/attention. I was sceptical about BitWarden (versus 1Password), because their UX was quite far behind - but they're slowly catching up, and I might have to reconsider my choice there. If I wasn't "required" to run a dozen different proprietary/non-portable apps, I'd be using OpenBSD instead of macOS. I do not "require" X to be free, but given all other things being equal, it's my preferred choice. Unfortunately, a lot of the time, we do not have the luxury of being picky.

2OEH8eoCRo0 2y ago
For the amount that these services cost, where the fuck is my native desktop client? I don't want electron and I don't want to use a web browser. They're phoning it in with this trash because there isn't competition. They want to make their own lives easier rather than the customer's.
- bigstrat2003 2y ago
  > They want to make their own lives easier rather than the customer's. This right here is the crux of the matter and why I have no sympathy for the defenses of Electron. I don't care at all how easy it is for the company's developers to make something. I care that the software I get is high quality, and I'm not willing to sacrifice that so that the company can cut corners on their costs.
  - rrr_oh_man 2y ago
    You are clearly not a manager (That is not an insult)
- fulladder 2y ago
  Matrix, or Discord
  - mardifoufs 2y ago
    Discord is electron/web based. And tbh it shows that asking for native just for the sake of being native is weird. Discord has a better UX than most native clients.
rendaw 2y ago
There's no alternative client worth attention because Slack makes it against the TOS and threatens to ban you if you use an alternative client, right?
m463 2y ago
Your examples are not firmware, and they do not pertain to physical devices. "require" means something different in the hardware context, and other concepts come into play.
lcfcjs6 2y ago
Odd that you're examples have nothing to do with firmware.
- rollcat 2y ago
  Firmware makes it possible to make use of hardware you physically own. Client software makes it possible to use services you pay for, operating systems make it possible to use applications. It's difficult to come up with a more straightforward analogy - I don't even want to try cars, these are rapidly becoming a much bigger issue than firmware.

2OEH8eoCRo0 2y ago

For the amount that these services cost, where the fuck is my native desktop client? I don't want electron and I don't want to use a web browser. They're phoning it in with this trash because there isn't competition. They want to make their own lives easier rather than the customer's.

bigstrat2003 2y ago
> They want to make their own lives easier rather than the customer's. This right here is the crux of the matter and why I have no sympathy for the defenses of Electron. I don't care at all how easy it is for the company's developers to make something. I care that the software I get is high quality, and I'm not willing to sacrifice that so that the company can cut corners on their costs.
- rrr_oh_man 2y ago
  You are clearly not a manager (That is not an insult)
fulladder 2y ago
Matrix, or Discord
- mardifoufs 2y ago
  Discord is electron/web based. And tbh it shows that asking for native just for the sake of being native is weird. Discord has a better UX than most native clients.

rendaw 2y ago

There's no alternative client worth attention because Slack makes it against the TOS and threatens to ban you if you use an alternative client, right?

m463 2y ago

Your examples are not firmware, and they do not pertain to physical devices. "require" means something different in the hardware context, and other concepts come into play.

lcfcjs6 2y ago

Odd that you're examples have nothing to do with firmware.

rollcat 2y ago
Firmware makes it possible to make use of hardware you physically own. Client software makes it possible to use services you pay for, operating systems make it possible to use applications. It's difficult to come up with a more straightforward analogy - I don't even want to try cars, these are rapidly becoming a much bigger issue than firmware.