8 ms·

With rhetoric like this, one wonders why Argentina has a perpetually mediocre economy.

4gotunameagain 2y ago
One could argue that any suspicion of the ruling class in South America and US demonisation is entirely justified: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_regime_change_in_Latin_America https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_r...
- blackhawkC17 2y ago
  Past events aren't a definite excuse for today's situations. Yeah, the U.S. interfered in many countries, including some that are super successful today, e.g., Taiwan and South Korea. But many Latin Americans never stop blaming U.S. interventions for everything. Of course, blame a boogeyman instead of wreckless internal economic policies.
  - derelicta 2y ago
    Unfortunately, like in Asia or Europe, the US never stopped interfering in the democratic process of South America. Still today, many of those countries are defacto western colonies and lack any independence. And the few who dare proclaiming themselves as Republics tend to end up on western blacklists.
    - aguaviva 2y ago
      Still today, many of those countries are defacto western colonies and lack any independence. Can you name even one? The only one to which the phrase "lacks any independence" could meaningfully apply is Puerto Rico. But even that's not really true, as it continually holds status referenda in favor of actually joining the US over independence. Most recently by a margin of 50-30 - and just a few weeks ago, in fact.
  - derelicta 2y ago
    And that's all whilst ignoring the downfall of the Syrian Arab Republic into the hands of western hegemons
    - SR2Z 2y ago
      Yes, that's exactly why Russia was meddling and Bashar al-Assad was torturing/raping/murdering: to keep that pesky Western influence away. The noble citizens of Syria obviously accept these human rights violations as a much better option than... allowing decadent Western concepts like "liberal democracy" or "pluralism" into their country. That's why they're sitting peacefully and not putting their lives on the line for the prospect of a risky future that only seems better compared to a present full of horror, right?
  - nothercastle 2y ago
    The US has never stopped intervening.
    - aguaviva 2y ago
      But it is very significant it hasn't involved itself in any armed conflicts in its own hemisphere for more than 30 years. Except for Trump's threats to invade Venezuala and Mexico, that is.
- shortrounddev2 2y ago
  Argentina's economic woes are because of the cult of peronism
  - 4gotunameagain 2y ago
    One might ask one question further, why would peronism, a hugely protectionist and isolationist philosophy gain ground in Argentina.
    - blackhawkC17 2y ago
      Are you insinuating it's the West's fault?
      - SR2Z 2y ago
        Yes, big bad America made the Argentina government ignore every scrap of economics and plunge their nation into poverty. Ignore the massive natural wealth of Argentina or the history of populist strongmen - it's all the US' fault.
        drekk 2y ago
        Argentine here — the US helped the military coup that overthrew democracy in Argentina and waged a "Dirty War" that saw people drugged and thrown out of helicopters. People born in the 70s grew up while that was happening. It's still living memory. The US (and other western countries) dictate the price of raw material exports, and drain countries like Argentina of the best talent. They dictate freight rates. To the extent western capital is willing to invest in the country, it is to build roads/rails that take raw materials from the countryside to the ports in Buenos Aires so that a small class of bourgeois vendidos can sell out the nation's national wealth like a fire sale. Macri is beloved by western media because he's willing to let the IMF and Federal Reserve dictate social policy in Argentina. Slash pensions, crush labor power, etc. My family voted for him and now my grandma needs us to send more dollars over so she can afford to live. Lot of parallels IMO to people on public assistance voting for Trump in the US. There were other solutions possible besides austerity.

One could argue that any suspicion of the ruling class in South America and US demonisation is entirely justified: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_regime_change_in_Latin_America https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_r...

blackhawkC17 2y ago
Past events aren't a definite excuse for today's situations. Yeah, the U.S. interfered in many countries, including some that are super successful today, e.g., Taiwan and South Korea. But many Latin Americans never stop blaming U.S. interventions for everything. Of course, blame a boogeyman instead of wreckless internal economic policies.
- derelicta 2y ago
  Unfortunately, like in Asia or Europe, the US never stopped interfering in the democratic process of South America. Still today, many of those countries are defacto western colonies and lack any independence. And the few who dare proclaiming themselves as Republics tend to end up on western blacklists.
  - aguaviva 2y ago
    Still today, many of those countries are defacto western colonies and lack any independence. Can you name even one? The only one to which the phrase "lacks any independence" could meaningfully apply is Puerto Rico. But even that's not really true, as it continually holds status referenda in favor of actually joining the US over independence. Most recently by a margin of 50-30 - and just a few weeks ago, in fact.
- derelicta 2y ago
  And that's all whilst ignoring the downfall of the Syrian Arab Republic into the hands of western hegemons
  - SR2Z 2y ago
    Yes, that's exactly why Russia was meddling and Bashar al-Assad was torturing/raping/murdering: to keep that pesky Western influence away. The noble citizens of Syria obviously accept these human rights violations as a much better option than... allowing decadent Western concepts like "liberal democracy" or "pluralism" into their country. That's why they're sitting peacefully and not putting their lives on the line for the prospect of a risky future that only seems better compared to a present full of horror, right?
- nothercastle 2y ago
  The US has never stopped intervening.
  - aguaviva 2y ago
    But it is very significant it hasn't involved itself in any armed conflicts in its own hemisphere for more than 30 years. Except for Trump's threats to invade Venezuala and Mexico, that is.
shortrounddev2 2y ago
Argentina's economic woes are because of the cult of peronism
- 4gotunameagain 2y ago
  One might ask one question further, why would peronism, a hugely protectionist and isolationist philosophy gain ground in Argentina.
  - blackhawkC17 2y ago
    Are you insinuating it's the West's fault?
    - SR2Z 2y ago
      Yes, big bad America made the Argentina government ignore every scrap of economics and plunge their nation into poverty. Ignore the massive natural wealth of Argentina or the history of populist strongmen - it's all the US' fault.
      - drekk 2y ago
        Argentine here — the US helped the military coup that overthrew democracy in Argentina and waged a "Dirty War" that saw people drugged and thrown out of helicopters. People born in the 70s grew up while that was happening. It's still living memory. The US (and other western countries) dictate the price of raw material exports, and drain countries like Argentina of the best talent. They dictate freight rates. To the extent western capital is willing to invest in the country, it is to build roads/rails that take raw materials from the countryside to the ports in Buenos Aires so that a small class of bourgeois vendidos can sell out the nation's national wealth like a fire sale. Macri is beloved by western media because he's willing to let the IMF and Federal Reserve dictate social policy in Argentina. Slash pensions, crush labor power, etc. My family voted for him and now my grandma needs us to send more dollars over so she can afford to live. Lot of parallels IMO to people on public assistance voting for Trump in the US. There were other solutions possible besides austerity.