4 ms·

"The Skyscraper Curse" https://mises.org/online-book/skyscraper-curse-and-how-austrian-economists-predicted-every-major-economic-crisis-last-century/chapter-9-

"The Skyscraper Curse" https://mises.org/online-book/skyscraper-curse-and-how-austrian-economists-predicted-every-major-economic-crisis-last-century/chapter-9-it-not-skyscrapers-fault https://mises.org/online-book/skyscraper-curse-and-how-austr... There's an interesting correlation between the business cycle and record breaking skyscrapers.

bobthepanda 2y ago
A summary of what it is since the above link is talking a while about commentary on criticisms of the skyscraper curse before actually discussing it; Record breaking skyscrapers rarely make sense because they are expensive to build and hard to fill, so their groundbreaking is associated with the late period of a time of easy credit and low rates.
- InDubioProRubio 2y ago
  And yet, we do it- all the mighty of the earth want to get high: https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torri_di_Bologna https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torri_di_Bologna https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shibam https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shibam https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ziggurat https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ziggurat
  - fakedang 2y ago
    There's a line in the Quran that the apocalypse is near when the sons of shepherds compete in building towers that try to reach the sky. A lot of Muslims allude in particular to the current crop of oil rich sheikhs (who are technically born from nomadic shepherding people) vying to build the world's tallest towers. Except man has been trying to do that since time immemorial :D.
    - palmfacehn 2y ago
      Interesting. I don't share their apocalyptic views, but I'll agree that misallocation of scarce resources often portends economic disaster.
    - 2tim47 2y ago
      You have confused a hadith (not from the Quran) Sunan Ibn Majah Vol. 1, Book 1, Hadith 63 with verses from the Quran (28:38 and 40:36–37). Anybody can make a mistake. Let us try to verify as everybody will have to support with basis on what we stated, on the Day of Judgement (17:36). Even if everything remotely Islamic is removed from consideration, the things to ponder upon are indeed all the links above viz https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ziggurat https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ziggurat and https://mises.org/online-book/skyscraper-curse-and-how-austrian-economists-predicted-every-major-economic-crisis-last-century/chapter-9-it-not-skyscrapers-fault https://mises.org/online-book/skyscraper-curse-and-how-austr... against this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tower_of_Babel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tower_of_Babel hmmm... food for thought on how ambition and pride can make us chase sub-optimal solutions (make us blind in other words).
- Gravityloss 2y ago
  Isn't it just a case of building higher and higher until there's an economic downturn. The record skyscrapers for many years will be the last ones built during the upturn.
  - aziaziazi 2y ago
    If we see skyscrapers as an end, yes. If they are a mean to an end it would be smart to compare them with other means.
    - Gravityloss 2y ago
      I assume the skyscrapers are very useful, but on the other hand, the cyclical nature of building is probably extremely inefficient, so not sure about the profitability. Sometimes governments can work against the cycle. Like build warships when drydocks don't have commercial orders and so on. I don't know if any companies or funds are big enough to do this.
      - bobthepanda 2y ago
        The record breaking ones are often vanity projects first and built with profitability in mind second. They're so big they are hard to fill; their architecture and floor plans are built with potential tenants as an afterthought; and because they are built at high cost, their mortgages demand premium rents that may be out of line with the general office market. --- You build a vanity skyscraper against the cycle at your own peril. The downfall of Sears is sometimes correlated with the opening of the Sears Tower in the '70s.
HWR_14 2y ago
Per the article, it has not just the business cycle: > the skyscraper curse involves an economic crisis, not the ordinary ebbs and flows of the typical business cycle.

bobthepanda 2y ago

A summary of what it is since the above link is talking a while about commentary on criticisms of the skyscraper curse before actually discussing it; Record breaking skyscrapers rarely make sense because they are expensive to build and hard to fill, so their groundbreaking is associated with the late period of a time of easy credit and low rates.

InDubioProRubio 2y ago
And yet, we do it- all the mighty of the earth want to get high: https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torri_di_Bologna https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torri_di_Bologna https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shibam https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shibam https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ziggurat https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ziggurat
- fakedang 2y ago
  There's a line in the Quran that the apocalypse is near when the sons of shepherds compete in building towers that try to reach the sky. A lot of Muslims allude in particular to the current crop of oil rich sheikhs (who are technically born from nomadic shepherding people) vying to build the world's tallest towers. Except man has been trying to do that since time immemorial :D.
  - palmfacehn 2y ago
    Interesting. I don't share their apocalyptic views, but I'll agree that misallocation of scarce resources often portends economic disaster.
  - 2tim47 2y ago
    You have confused a hadith (not from the Quran) Sunan Ibn Majah Vol. 1, Book 1, Hadith 63 with verses from the Quran (28:38 and 40:36–37). Anybody can make a mistake. Let us try to verify as everybody will have to support with basis on what we stated, on the Day of Judgement (17:36). Even if everything remotely Islamic is removed from consideration, the things to ponder upon are indeed all the links above viz https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ziggurat https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ziggurat and https://mises.org/online-book/skyscraper-curse-and-how-austrian-economists-predicted-every-major-economic-crisis-last-century/chapter-9-it-not-skyscrapers-fault https://mises.org/online-book/skyscraper-curse-and-how-austr... against this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tower_of_Babel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tower_of_Babel hmmm... food for thought on how ambition and pride can make us chase sub-optimal solutions (make us blind in other words).
Gravityloss 2y ago
Isn't it just a case of building higher and higher until there's an economic downturn. The record skyscrapers for many years will be the last ones built during the upturn.
- aziaziazi 2y ago
  If we see skyscrapers as an end, yes. If they are a mean to an end it would be smart to compare them with other means.
  - Gravityloss 2y ago
    I assume the skyscrapers are very useful, but on the other hand, the cyclical nature of building is probably extremely inefficient, so not sure about the profitability. Sometimes governments can work against the cycle. Like build warships when drydocks don't have commercial orders and so on. I don't know if any companies or funds are big enough to do this.
    - bobthepanda 2y ago
      The record breaking ones are often vanity projects first and built with profitability in mind second. They're so big they are hard to fill; their architecture and floor plans are built with potential tenants as an afterthought; and because they are built at high cost, their mortgages demand premium rents that may be out of line with the general office market. --- You build a vanity skyscraper against the cycle at your own peril. The downfall of Sears is sometimes correlated with the opening of the Sears Tower in the '70s.

HWR_14 2y ago

Per the article, it has not just the business cycle: > the skyscraper curse involves an economic crisis, not the ordinary ebbs and flows of the typical business cycle.