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Nobody is building nuclear power plants for data centres. A few people have signed some paperwork saying that they would buy electricity from new nuclear plants

Nobody is building nuclear power plants for data centres. A few people have signed some paperwork saying that they would buy electricity from new nuclear plants if they could deliver it at a certain price, a price mind you that has not been done before. Others are trying to restart an existing reactor at three mile island (a thing that has never been done before, and likely won't be done now since the reactor was shut down due to being too expensive to run). And certainly nobody is building one in the next 3-4 years; they'd be lucky to finish the paperwork in that time. What is actually going to power them is solar, wind, and batteries: https://www.theverge.com/2024/12/10/24317888/googles-data-center-solar-wind-renewable-energy-intersect-partnership https://www.theverge.com/2024/12/10/24317888/googles-data-ce...

aitchnyu 2y ago
Could be a good candidate for factobattery. Overbuild the system, run them at full speed at peak solar generation, then underclock them at night. https://www.moderndescartes.com/essays/factobattery/ https://www.moderndescartes.com/essays/factobattery/
- ForHackernews 2y ago
  This is a really interesting idea! Of course, in practice that will just mean crypto-token mining rather than anything useful.
- numpad0 2y ago
  Then why no one seem to be doing it?
adelpozo 2y ago
Or solar in space, which some have already heard of Lumen Orbit https://www.ycombinator.com/companies/lumen-orbit https://www.ycombinator.com/companies/lumen-orbit
- cratermoon 2y ago
  Space-based solar power contains little intrinsic advantage that we can get “only from space.” It looks like a wash at best, and the astronomers would say “don’t bother.” https://dothemath.ucsd.edu/2012/03/space-based-solar-power/ https://dothemath.ucsd.edu/2012/03/space-based-solar-power/
  - adelpozo 2y ago
    Yeah, but what I found thought provoking is what if you send the solar panels and the datacenter as well for training. No need to transmission of power down to earth. I guess then it becomes a heat dissipation and hardware upgrade and maintenance. But again, thought provoking.
    - sobani 2y ago
      Heat dissipation becomes a _huge_ problem when you deploy a data center inside a perfect insulator, the vacuum of space. Currently about a third of the energy consumption of a data center spent on cooling (heat dissipation)? And that's with the use of a huge heat sink, the earth.
      - cratermoon 2y ago
        Plus, I feel like GP hasn't ever seen an actual data center. One does not simply strap on on top of a rocket (even a SpaceX Starship) and toss it into LEO.
cma 2y ago
> Nobody is building nuclear power plants for data centres. A few people have signed some paperwork saying that they would buy electricity from new nuclear plants if they could deliver it at a certain price, a price mind you that has not been done before. Not building new, but I think Microsoft paying to restart a reactor at Three Mile Island for their datacenter is much more significant than you make the deals sound: https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2024/sep/20/three-mile-island-nuclear-plant-reopen-microsoft https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2024/sep/20/three-mi...
- portaouflop 2y ago
  They say it’s going to be online in 2028. Are you willing to bet that they won’t have 3 mile island operational by 2030?
  - throwup238 2y ago
    > Constellation closed the adjacent but unconnected Unit 1 reactor in 2019 for economic reasons, but will bring it back to life after signing a 20-year power purchase agreement to supply Microsoft’s energy-hungry data centers, the company announced on Friday. The reactor they’re restarting was operational just five years ago. It’s not a fully decommissioned or melted down reactor and it’s likely all their licensing is still valid so the red tape, especially environmental studies, is mostly irrelevant. Getting that reactor back up and running will be a lot simpler than building a new one.
    - c-linkage 2y ago
      The largest problem will be finding qualified and vetted personnel. All the people who worked at the plant when it closed five years ago had to find jobs elsewhere. Even though the plant was an important employer in Middletown, I don't know if those former employees will be willing the quit there current jobs to go back, especially if there is a risk the plant will just be shut down again when it once again becomes too expensive to operate.
      - 2y ago
yunohn 2y ago
Look, I agree that nuclear is difficult, but Google and Microsoft have publicly committed to those projects you’re mentioning. I don’t understand your dismissive tone that all of it is hogwash? This is one of those HN armchair comments.
- dx034 2y ago
  But not just for AI, for all their data center operations.
- yard2010 2y ago
  Google and Microsoft won't do anything that doesn't translate to money. These days are over.
  - yunohn 2y ago
    Yes, that’s why they want to fund and purchase cheap nuclear energy.
- portaouflop 2y ago
  Microsoft also committed publicly to prioritise security. And Google says they prioritise privacy of their users above all else. I pity the fool that believes anything these corporations put out publicly. Actions matter, words are wind
  - yunohn 2y ago
    I almost feel there’s a big difference between the kinds of things we’re talking about, but sure.
- oblio 2y ago
  > Google and Microsoft have publicly committed to those projects you’re mentioning Google and Microsoft, or their current CEOs, today? Amazon's CEO committed to their office employees having flexibility regarding their workplace, only about 2 years ago, yet here we are now, with said employees soon having the flexibility to be 5 days in the office, or quit the company. CEO promises are not worth the screen time they're provided. Have these companies signed contracts with major penalties if they back out? Those would basically be the only "close to" unbreakable bonds for them.
ranyume 2y ago
> Nobody is building nuclear power plants for data centres Argentina just announced they're building nuclear plants for AI.
standeven 2y ago
And unfortunately, gas and coal in the meantime. https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2024/sep/15/data-center-gas-emissions-tech https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2024/sep/15/data-cent...
- robocat 2y ago
  That article is terribly vague. Electric cars are causing exactly the same problem. Also the "recs" appear to be based on a lie. Overall, an increase in load can only be green if there is added new green generation to service that load.
  - _aavaa_ 2y ago
    Except the alternative to electric are petrol/diesel cars which are worse than electric cars run on gas or coal. The pollution no longer occurs in population zones, and the grid can be cleaned up without changing the car. The alternatives for these data centres are either build renewables or not build the data centres, both of which are better.

aitchnyu 2y ago

Could be a good candidate for factobattery. Overbuild the system, run them at full speed at peak solar generation, then underclock them at night. https://www.moderndescartes.com/essays/factobattery/ https://www.moderndescartes.com/essays/factobattery/

ForHackernews 2y ago
This is a really interesting idea! Of course, in practice that will just mean crypto-token mining rather than anything useful.
numpad0 2y ago
Then why no one seem to be doing it?

adelpozo 2y ago

Or solar in space, which some have already heard of Lumen Orbit https://www.ycombinator.com/companies/lumen-orbit https://www.ycombinator.com/companies/lumen-orbit

cratermoon 2y ago
Space-based solar power contains little intrinsic advantage that we can get “only from space.” It looks like a wash at best, and the astronomers would say “don’t bother.” https://dothemath.ucsd.edu/2012/03/space-based-solar-power/ https://dothemath.ucsd.edu/2012/03/space-based-solar-power/
- adelpozo 2y ago
  Yeah, but what I found thought provoking is what if you send the solar panels and the datacenter as well for training. No need to transmission of power down to earth. I guess then it becomes a heat dissipation and hardware upgrade and maintenance. But again, thought provoking.
  - sobani 2y ago
    Heat dissipation becomes a _huge_ problem when you deploy a data center inside a perfect insulator, the vacuum of space. Currently about a third of the energy consumption of a data center spent on cooling (heat dissipation)? And that's with the use of a huge heat sink, the earth.
    - cratermoon 2y ago
      Plus, I feel like GP hasn't ever seen an actual data center. One does not simply strap on on top of a rocket (even a SpaceX Starship) and toss it into LEO.

cma 2y ago

> Nobody is building nuclear power plants for data centres. A few people have signed some paperwork saying that they would buy electricity from new nuclear plants if they could deliver it at a certain price, a price mind you that has not been done before. Not building new, but I think Microsoft paying to restart a reactor at Three Mile Island for their datacenter is much more significant than you make the deals sound: https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2024/sep/20/three-mile-island-nuclear-plant-reopen-microsoft https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2024/sep/20/three-mi...

portaouflop 2y ago
They say it’s going to be online in 2028. Are you willing to bet that they won’t have 3 mile island operational by 2030?
- throwup238 2y ago
  > Constellation closed the adjacent but unconnected Unit 1 reactor in 2019 for economic reasons, but will bring it back to life after signing a 20-year power purchase agreement to supply Microsoft’s energy-hungry data centers, the company announced on Friday. The reactor they’re restarting was operational just five years ago. It’s not a fully decommissioned or melted down reactor and it’s likely all their licensing is still valid so the red tape, especially environmental studies, is mostly irrelevant. Getting that reactor back up and running will be a lot simpler than building a new one.
  - c-linkage 2y ago
    The largest problem will be finding qualified and vetted personnel. All the people who worked at the plant when it closed five years ago had to find jobs elsewhere. Even though the plant was an important employer in Middletown, I don't know if those former employees will be willing the quit there current jobs to go back, especially if there is a risk the plant will just be shut down again when it once again becomes too expensive to operate.
    - 2y ago

yunohn 2y ago

Look, I agree that nuclear is difficult, but Google and Microsoft have publicly committed to those projects you’re mentioning. I don’t understand your dismissive tone that all of it is hogwash? This is one of those HN armchair comments.

dx034 2y ago
But not just for AI, for all their data center operations.
yard2010 2y ago
Google and Microsoft won't do anything that doesn't translate to money. These days are over.
- yunohn 2y ago
  Yes, that’s why they want to fund and purchase cheap nuclear energy.
portaouflop 2y ago
Microsoft also committed publicly to prioritise security. And Google says they prioritise privacy of their users above all else. I pity the fool that believes anything these corporations put out publicly. Actions matter, words are wind
- yunohn 2y ago
  I almost feel there’s a big difference between the kinds of things we’re talking about, but sure.
oblio 2y ago
> Google and Microsoft have publicly committed to those projects you’re mentioning Google and Microsoft, or their current CEOs, today? Amazon's CEO committed to their office employees having flexibility regarding their workplace, only about 2 years ago, yet here we are now, with said employees soon having the flexibility to be 5 days in the office, or quit the company. CEO promises are not worth the screen time they're provided. Have these companies signed contracts with major penalties if they back out? Those would basically be the only "close to" unbreakable bonds for them.

ranyume 2y ago

> Nobody is building nuclear power plants for data centres Argentina just announced they're building nuclear plants for AI.

standeven 2y ago

And unfortunately, gas and coal in the meantime. https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2024/sep/15/data-center-gas-emissions-tech https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2024/sep/15/data-cent...

robocat 2y ago
That article is terribly vague. Electric cars are causing exactly the same problem. Also the "recs" appear to be based on a lie. Overall, an increase in load can only be green if there is added new green generation to service that load.
- _aavaa_ 2y ago
  Except the alternative to electric are petrol/diesel cars which are worse than electric cars run on gas or coal. The pollution no longer occurs in population zones, and the grid can be cleaned up without changing the car. The alternatives for these data centres are either build renewables or not build the data centres, both of which are better.