5 ms·

I love Tintin too. But I recently asked two different French individuals about Tintin, and they are not a fan -- they think Tintin is racist.

coldtea 2y ago
They just repeated like parrots the stereotypes of today, instead of those of Herge's time.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
pvaldes 2y ago
Tintin is not a French comic, is from Belgium. And the first two comics are controversial, but also a product of that age. Blue Lotus also depicts a terrible image of Japanese. Asterix is more consistent, complex and rewarding for adults. A part of Asterix has dated also because the endless cameos of real people popular in that years don't mean so much for new generations. Other European comic in the big leagues is the Spanish Mortadelo and Filemon. If Tintin is adventure and Asterix is clever wordplay, Mortadelo embraces directly sadistic fun in its wild own way. If you don't know them still, see the film "Mortadelo and Filemon: Mission implausible" for a good glimpse of that world. You'll thank me later.
- kombookcha 2y ago
  My pitch to American readers is that Mortadelo & Filemon is like raunchy Spy VS Spy with Tom & Jerry characteristics. In fact, if you liked the old British TV sitcom Bottom, you'll likely enjoy M&F.
  - pvaldes 2y ago
    Very good definition. Definitely Tom-and-Jerry-esque mixed with blue collar scroundrel overtones. I would expect to have more new Tintin comics as result, but probably will be at most a good falsification (Don't made me make talk about the new "Lord of the rings" film).
  - anthk 2y ago
    Mortadelo y Filemón were a parody on Sherlock Holmes and Watson first, but being a polar opposite duo a la Don Quixote and Sancho Panza. Later, at the mid-late 70's they shifted to a James Bond like parody, being secret agents instead of private detectives. And, OFC, as Don Quixote, they made fun of the Spanish society itself leaving no one without a critique. Politicians, bosses, the average Spaniard mentality of being half a cheapskate lifehacker and half a rascal, the Church, the shitty state infrastructures for its time, and so on. The Brits have a similar setting with the Rowan Atkinson movies depicting incompetent spies with a Mr Bean like character.
danpalmer 2y ago
Yeah I have fond memories of reading Tintin in my school library, but I recently downloaded and re-read one of the comics and while, by title, it was likely one of the less risky ones, it was still not up to the standard I'd expect of modern literature in this regard. To call it racist might be too divisive, but it certainly relied on stereotypes of race, gender, occupation, even neuro-divergency, too much for my taste.
jeffreyq 2y ago
Ooh! I would super recommend reading into the Tintin author's friendship with https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zhang_Chongren https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zhang_Chongren. It also touches upon and confirms/applies to what the French individuals say about Hergé, but up until his writing of The Blue Lotus, I'd argue. The section on Zhang Chongren's wikipedia was cool ``` # Influence on Hergé Hergé's early albums of The Adventures of Tintin were highly dependent on stereotypes for comedic effect. These included evil Russian Bolsheviks, lazy and ignorant Africans, and an America of gangsters, cowboys and Indians. At the close of the newspaper run of Cigars of the Pharaoh, Hergé had mentioned that Tintin's next adventure (The Blue Lotus) would bring him to China. Father Gosset, the chaplain to the Chinese students at the University of Leuven, wrote to Hergé urging him to be sensitive about what he wrote about China. Hergé agreed, and in the spring of 1934 Gosset introduced him to Zhang Chongren. The two young artists quickly became close friends, and Zhang introduced Hergé to Chinese history and culture, and the techniques of Chinese art. Of similar age, they also shared many interests and beliefs. Hergé even promised to give authorship credits to Zhang in the book, but Zhang declined the offer. As a result of this experience, Hergé would strive, in The Blue Lotus and subsequent Tintin adventures, to be meticulously accurate in depicting the places Tintin visited. As a token of appreciation, Hergé added the character "Chang Chong-Chen" (Tchang in original French-language version) to The Blue Lotus.[1] As another result of his friendship with Zhang, Hergé became increasingly aware of the problems of colonialism, in particular the Empire of Japan's advances into China, and the corrupt, exploitative International Settlement of Shanghai. The Blue Lotus carries a bold anti-imperialist message, contrary to the prevailing view in Europe, which was sympathetic to Japan and the colonial enterprise[citation needed]. As a result, it drew sharp criticism from various parties, including a protest by Japanese diplomats to the Belgian Foreign Ministry.[citation needed] ``` I bought a copy of The Blue Lotus after learning about how the publication of that adventure was a turning point in Hergé's understanding and open-mindedness about other (specifically China, in this case) cultures. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Blue_Lotus https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Blue_Lotus https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chang_Chong-Chen https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chang_Chong-Chen
- gramie 2y ago
  Hergé's depiction of the Chinese was still quite stereotypical, although more benign than his previous treatment of non-Europeans. His depiction of the Japanese wasn't so nuanced (although fairly typical for the times). He may have started to broaden his understanding of "foreigners", but it still took a while.
dyauspitr 2y ago
It is racist but staunchly in the normal racism for its time category.
makeitdouble 2y ago
It was definitely of its time. Most of us will just ignore these parts (nobody's perfect, expecting that from a past author is a high bar, and would have considerably reduced the amount of entertainment available), but I also see an option for us to have alternative versions where those bits are either reworked or removed. The original would still be there, and there would be a "modernized" version that's easier to digest for the newer generations.
- Filligree 2y ago
  As a bonus, the modernised versions would be back under copyright for another century.
takiyo 2y ago
I hope you mever see memin pinguin
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
LAC-Tech 2y ago
I can remember tracking down "Tintin in the Congo" - I found it completely unremarkable.
- elevaet 2y ago
  It was pretty low quality compared to later Tintin books, and a lot more racist. No surprise though considering the era, and that this was during the midst of the Belgian occupation of the Congo.
  - LAC-Tech 2y ago
    I guess I've read a lot more 20th century stuff. I didn't even register on my radar.

coldtea 2y ago

They just repeated like parrots the stereotypes of today, instead of those of Herge's time.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

pvaldes 2y ago

Tintin is not a French comic, is from Belgium. And the first two comics are controversial, but also a product of that age. Blue Lotus also depicts a terrible image of Japanese. Asterix is more consistent, complex and rewarding for adults. A part of Asterix has dated also because the endless cameos of real people popular in that years don't mean so much for new generations. Other European comic in the big leagues is the Spanish Mortadelo and Filemon. If Tintin is adventure and Asterix is clever wordplay, Mortadelo embraces directly sadistic fun in its wild own way. If you don't know them still, see the film "Mortadelo and Filemon: Mission implausible" for a good glimpse of that world. You'll thank me later.

kombookcha 2y ago
My pitch to American readers is that Mortadelo & Filemon is like raunchy Spy VS Spy with Tom & Jerry characteristics. In fact, if you liked the old British TV sitcom Bottom, you'll likely enjoy M&F.
- pvaldes 2y ago
  Very good definition. Definitely Tom-and-Jerry-esque mixed with blue collar scroundrel overtones. I would expect to have more new Tintin comics as result, but probably will be at most a good falsification (Don't made me make talk about the new "Lord of the rings" film).
- anthk 2y ago
  Mortadelo y Filemón were a parody on Sherlock Holmes and Watson first, but being a polar opposite duo a la Don Quixote and Sancho Panza. Later, at the mid-late 70's they shifted to a James Bond like parody, being secret agents instead of private detectives. And, OFC, as Don Quixote, they made fun of the Spanish society itself leaving no one without a critique. Politicians, bosses, the average Spaniard mentality of being half a cheapskate lifehacker and half a rascal, the Church, the shitty state infrastructures for its time, and so on. The Brits have a similar setting with the Rowan Atkinson movies depicting incompetent spies with a Mr Bean like character.

danpalmer 2y ago

Yeah I have fond memories of reading Tintin in my school library, but I recently downloaded and re-read one of the comics and while, by title, it was likely one of the less risky ones, it was still not up to the standard I'd expect of modern literature in this regard. To call it racist might be too divisive, but it certainly relied on stereotypes of race, gender, occupation, even neuro-divergency, too much for my taste.

jeffreyq 2y ago

Ooh! I would super recommend reading into the Tintin author's friendship with https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zhang_Chongren https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zhang_Chongren. It also touches upon and confirms/applies to what the French individuals say about Hergé, but up until his writing of The Blue Lotus, I'd argue. The section on Zhang Chongren's wikipedia was cool ``` # Influence on Hergé Hergé's early albums of The Adventures of Tintin were highly dependent on stereotypes for comedic effect. These included evil Russian Bolsheviks, lazy and ignorant Africans, and an America of gangsters, cowboys and Indians. At the close of the newspaper run of Cigars of the Pharaoh, Hergé had mentioned that Tintin's next adventure (The Blue Lotus) would bring him to China. Father Gosset, the chaplain to the Chinese students at the University of Leuven, wrote to Hergé urging him to be sensitive about what he wrote about China. Hergé agreed, and in the spring of 1934 Gosset introduced him to Zhang Chongren. The two young artists quickly became close friends, and Zhang introduced Hergé to Chinese history and culture, and the techniques of Chinese art. Of similar age, they also shared many interests and beliefs. Hergé even promised to give authorship credits to Zhang in the book, but Zhang declined the offer. As a result of this experience, Hergé would strive, in The Blue Lotus and subsequent Tintin adventures, to be meticulously accurate in depicting the places Tintin visited. As a token of appreciation, Hergé added the character "Chang Chong-Chen" (Tchang in original French-language version) to The Blue Lotus.[1] As another result of his friendship with Zhang, Hergé became increasingly aware of the problems of colonialism, in particular the Empire of Japan's advances into China, and the corrupt, exploitative International Settlement of Shanghai. The Blue Lotus carries a bold anti-imperialist message, contrary to the prevailing view in Europe, which was sympathetic to Japan and the colonial enterprise[citation needed]. As a result, it drew sharp criticism from various parties, including a protest by Japanese diplomats to the Belgian Foreign Ministry.[citation needed] ``` I bought a copy of The Blue Lotus after learning about how the publication of that adventure was a turning point in Hergé's understanding and open-mindedness about other (specifically China, in this case) cultures. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Blue_Lotus https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Blue_Lotus https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chang_Chong-Chen https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chang_Chong-Chen

gramie 2y ago
Hergé's depiction of the Chinese was still quite stereotypical, although more benign than his previous treatment of non-Europeans. His depiction of the Japanese wasn't so nuanced (although fairly typical for the times). He may have started to broaden his understanding of "foreigners", but it still took a while.

dyauspitr 2y ago

It is racist but staunchly in the normal racism for its time category.

makeitdouble 2y ago

It was definitely of its time. Most of us will just ignore these parts (nobody's perfect, expecting that from a past author is a high bar, and would have considerably reduced the amount of entertainment available), but I also see an option for us to have alternative versions where those bits are either reworked or removed. The original would still be there, and there would be a "modernized" version that's easier to digest for the newer generations.

Filligree 2y ago
As a bonus, the modernised versions would be back under copyright for another century.

takiyo 2y ago

I hope you mever see memin pinguin

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

LAC-Tech 2y ago

I can remember tracking down "Tintin in the Congo" - I found it completely unremarkable.

elevaet 2y ago
It was pretty low quality compared to later Tintin books, and a lot more racist. No surprise though considering the era, and that this was during the midst of the Belgian occupation of the Congo.
- LAC-Tech 2y ago
  I guess I've read a lot more 20th century stuff. I didn't even register on my radar.