4 ms·

> What content promotes eating disorders? There are numerous sites and social media pages on all the major platforms that literally promote anorexia. That you’

> What content promotes eating disorders? There are numerous sites and social media pages on all the major platforms that literally promote anorexia. That you’ve never heard of them should perhaps encourage you to take a more curious and less combative approach to this topic.

nomilk 2y ago
> encourage you to take a more curious .. But: > Is there a single site ... ? is asking for a tiny bit of evidence (this is gentle curiousness; the antithesis of combative). Earnestly, are you able to provide one site that 'promotes eating disorders', so I can be educated? If the answer is 'any site with charismatic too-slim people', isn't that extremely difficult to administer, and possibly become horribly discriminatory, for example if a site has a user profile of a beautiful but illegally[1] slender person, doesn't that 'promote eating disorders'? Would a site admin be legally compelled to block that user, or at least censor their profile pic? I literally don't know what's legal vs illegal in this sphere, and suspect 99% of others are the same, and that probably includes the legislators themselves. Those claiming to know precisely what's il/legal in this context are probably overconfident.
- intended 2y ago
  Search for “pro Ana” websites https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/1357034x12440827 https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/1357034x1244082... https://www.mdpi.com/1660-4601/18/4/2186 https://www.mdpi.com/1660-4601/18/4/2186
- jackvalentine 2y ago
  If you come from an angle of ‘I’ve never seen it therefor it’s just whack a mole’ don’t be surprised if people read it as simple rejection rather than curiosity. Using language like ‘Is there a single site?’ doubles down on it. This article describes social media groups, on the major platforms, that encourage eating disorders https://rollingout.com/2024/10/08/eating-disorder-groups-on-social-media/ https://rollingout.com/2024/10/08/eating-disorder-groups-on-... Young children being treated for eating disorders as inpatients in hospitals almost always have been in contact with some kind of eating disorder glorification.
  - nomilk 2y ago
    But the article doesn't give a single site or name a single community; it provides zero evidence of its claims. > Camille, a 20-year-old who has struggled with an eating disorder since middle school, described her community as initially intended to be a safe space but ultimately spiraling out of control due to algorithmic influence If these claims are true, why not simply demonstrate it; at least state the name of the community so readers can cross reference (to ensure it's not 'boogyman' | typical alarmist-bait), or show us screenshots, or create a dummy twitter account and scroll down the feed as evidence of 'algorithmic influence'. That's 15 minutes work. Why doesn't the journalist do that? Is it possible these things aren't nearly as bad as they claim? Algorithms will promote what the user clicks on and engages with. Simply: three dots -> Not interested in this post. That retrains the algorithm. And if people are seeking harmful content, they'll find it with or without algorithms, with or without twitter, with or without the internet! Are we banning books next? And conversation? What about reasoning in one's own mind, that too?
    - jackvalentine 2y ago
      There’s that combativeness again.
      - grayhatter 2y ago
        I didn't read his questions nearly as combative as I read yours. And I say that as someone who's very aware of and very adverse to the idea and tactic of concern trolling. I've spent enough time working with teams dedicated to combatting proana, and other S/SH issues, so I know pretty well how significant a problem it is. If I'd only read the above non-answers I'd probably be likely to take the side of the person you responded to. If you think he's being combative, I'd hope you'd defuse it with redirection, instead of overt hostility. Especially if one of the issues you care about is how harmful proana, anorexia, S/SH and adjacent issues are, I'd assume you knew you need to start with compassion and understanding.
        jackvalentine 2y ago
- mu53 2y ago
  If you search slang for anorexia and bulimia (ana and mia, respectively), it comes up. The slang helps remove the stigma and feels more friendly/cool. Thinspo/thinspiration is another term used by that community. "Help me love ana". With that search, there are sites that come up [1]. These terms are also used on reddit, instagram, etc for people to share tips (to be better anorexics/bulimics). [1] https://strongerinana.weebly.com/index.html https://strongerinana.weebly.com/index.html
  - nomilk 2y ago
    Thanks for the example. > This website is for support for those with an eating disorder who feel alone and by themself with this issue. Where are people with anorexia and bulimia supposed to get support/information if forums about the topics are untenable? Many can't beat the condition, and there's potential benefit in learning to accept and live with it. I'm not saying the site is unequivocally good, just that it's not unequivocally bad, therefore onerous regulation that has huge side-effects on information sharing to curb something that's arguably net-beneficial is dubious and shouldn't be pursued without strong evidence that 1. It will work as intended, and 2. It will actually be beneficial.
    - petesergeant 2y ago
      > Where are people with anorexia and bulimia supposed to get support/information if forums about the topics are untenable? Many can't beat the condition, and there's potential benefit in learning to accept and live with it. Sending an anorexic to a pro-ana site is like sending someone with major depressive order to a pro-suicide site. These sites are not support groups for people struggling to cope with anorexia, they’re sites that tell you tips for overcoming your body’s defences to starving it to death
    - JamesBarney 2y ago
      I don't believe in banning websites but that website is unequivocally bad. It's a website that reinforces all the cognitive distortions of anorexia. It's the equivalent of a website for depression that says "You know how you feel like life isn't worth living, you're right it isn't, everyone who tells you that with treatment it will get better is lying to you. Here's a bunch of inspirational blog posts about how wonderful suicide is and 10 ways to kill yourself." Anorexia is not a very stable condition, you can't really just accept it and live with it. Anorexia is built on a positive feedback loop. Obsession with thinness drives low body weight, and low body weight increases the obsession. Most anorexics get worse when not being treated. This is one of the reason it has such a staggeringly high mortality rate.
TacticalCoder 2y ago
> There are numerous sites and social media pages on all the major platforms that literally promote anorexia. Although probably a just cause I'd say that the western world does have an obesity problem though, not an anorexia one. So a better example would be all the sites encouraging people being lazy and fat and eating junk while labelling anything criticizing the unhealthiness of obesity as supposedly engaging in "fat shaming". I mean: even using the term "fat shaming" is encouraging fat people to stay fat. And that's promoting eating disorders IMO. So: fighting anorexia, sure. But we got bigger fishes (literally) to deal with if the (laudable) goal is to fight eating disorders.
- dTal 2y ago
  >the western world does have an obesity problem though, not an anorexia one It has both, and they are linked. It is a false ontology to place them in opposition, just because one is "too fat" and the other "too thin". It's also very arguable that obesity is the "worse" problem. Yes it causes negative health outcomes, and is more widespread, but anorexia is more immediately and dramatically harmful, even fatal, and disproportionately affects teenagers during a critical growth phase, often causing irreversible disfigurement.
  - 0xcde4c3db 2y ago
    Also, it's become pretty clear that anorexia embodies a particular kind of dysfunctional dynamic between body perception and diet (one that is gaining recognition in other forms of dietary restriction, as sometimes seen in e.g. athletes and people obsessed with various categorizations of "natural" or "pure" foods). The vast majority of obese people aren't building an elaborate system of memes and rituals to force themselves to overeat because they look in the mirror and see themselves as thinner than they really are.
- jfengel 2y ago
  The anorexia problem is part of the obesity problem. Young girls (and increasingly, young boys) see all the pressure to be skinny and at the same time are surrounded by food designed to make them fat. They respond by swearing off food entirely. They are terrified of becoming fat, and literally see their bodies as fat even as they are about to die of starvation. Fixing the numerous causes of obesity would definitely help. But it's not made easier by the existence of "pro-ana" social media which encourages young anorexics to reinforce each other's dangerous attitudes to food.

nomilk 2y ago

> encourage you to take a more curious .. But: > Is there a single site ... ? is asking for a tiny bit of evidence (this is gentle curiousness; the antithesis of combative). Earnestly, are you able to provide one site that 'promotes eating disorders', so I can be educated? If the answer is 'any site with charismatic too-slim people', isn't that extremely difficult to administer, and possibly become horribly discriminatory, for example if a site has a user profile of a beautiful but illegally[1] slender person, doesn't that 'promote eating disorders'? Would a site admin be legally compelled to block that user, or at least censor their profile pic? I literally don't know what's legal vs illegal in this sphere, and suspect 99% of others are the same, and that probably includes the legislators themselves. Those claiming to know precisely what's il/legal in this context are probably overconfident.

intended 2y ago
Search for “pro Ana” websites https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/1357034x12440827 https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/1357034x1244082... https://www.mdpi.com/1660-4601/18/4/2186 https://www.mdpi.com/1660-4601/18/4/2186
jackvalentine 2y ago
If you come from an angle of ‘I’ve never seen it therefor it’s just whack a mole’ don’t be surprised if people read it as simple rejection rather than curiosity. Using language like ‘Is there a single site?’ doubles down on it. This article describes social media groups, on the major platforms, that encourage eating disorders https://rollingout.com/2024/10/08/eating-disorder-groups-on-social-media/ https://rollingout.com/2024/10/08/eating-disorder-groups-on-... Young children being treated for eating disorders as inpatients in hospitals almost always have been in contact with some kind of eating disorder glorification.
- nomilk 2y ago
  But the article doesn't give a single site or name a single community; it provides zero evidence of its claims. > Camille, a 20-year-old who has struggled with an eating disorder since middle school, described her community as initially intended to be a safe space but ultimately spiraling out of control due to algorithmic influence If these claims are true, why not simply demonstrate it; at least state the name of the community so readers can cross reference (to ensure it's not 'boogyman' | typical alarmist-bait), or show us screenshots, or create a dummy twitter account and scroll down the feed as evidence of 'algorithmic influence'. That's 15 minutes work. Why doesn't the journalist do that? Is it possible these things aren't nearly as bad as they claim? Algorithms will promote what the user clicks on and engages with. Simply: three dots -> Not interested in this post. That retrains the algorithm. And if people are seeking harmful content, they'll find it with or without algorithms, with or without twitter, with or without the internet! Are we banning books next? And conversation? What about reasoning in one's own mind, that too?
  - jackvalentine 2y ago
    There’s that combativeness again.
    - grayhatter 2y ago
      I didn't read his questions nearly as combative as I read yours. And I say that as someone who's very aware of and very adverse to the idea and tactic of concern trolling. I've spent enough time working with teams dedicated to combatting proana, and other S/SH issues, so I know pretty well how significant a problem it is. If I'd only read the above non-answers I'd probably be likely to take the side of the person you responded to. If you think he's being combative, I'd hope you'd defuse it with redirection, instead of overt hostility. Especially if one of the issues you care about is how harmful proana, anorexia, S/SH and adjacent issues are, I'd assume you knew you need to start with compassion and understanding.
      - jackvalentine 2y ago
mu53 2y ago
If you search slang for anorexia and bulimia (ana and mia, respectively), it comes up. The slang helps remove the stigma and feels more friendly/cool. Thinspo/thinspiration is another term used by that community. "Help me love ana". With that search, there are sites that come up [1]. These terms are also used on reddit, instagram, etc for people to share tips (to be better anorexics/bulimics). [1] https://strongerinana.weebly.com/index.html https://strongerinana.weebly.com/index.html
- nomilk 2y ago
  Thanks for the example. > This website is for support for those with an eating disorder who feel alone and by themself with this issue. Where are people with anorexia and bulimia supposed to get support/information if forums about the topics are untenable? Many can't beat the condition, and there's potential benefit in learning to accept and live with it. I'm not saying the site is unequivocally good, just that it's not unequivocally bad, therefore onerous regulation that has huge side-effects on information sharing to curb something that's arguably net-beneficial is dubious and shouldn't be pursued without strong evidence that 1. It will work as intended, and 2. It will actually be beneficial.
  - petesergeant 2y ago
    > Where are people with anorexia and bulimia supposed to get support/information if forums about the topics are untenable? Many can't beat the condition, and there's potential benefit in learning to accept and live with it. Sending an anorexic to a pro-ana site is like sending someone with major depressive order to a pro-suicide site. These sites are not support groups for people struggling to cope with anorexia, they’re sites that tell you tips for overcoming your body’s defences to starving it to death
  - JamesBarney 2y ago
    I don't believe in banning websites but that website is unequivocally bad. It's a website that reinforces all the cognitive distortions of anorexia. It's the equivalent of a website for depression that says "You know how you feel like life isn't worth living, you're right it isn't, everyone who tells you that with treatment it will get better is lying to you. Here's a bunch of inspirational blog posts about how wonderful suicide is and 10 ways to kill yourself." Anorexia is not a very stable condition, you can't really just accept it and live with it. Anorexia is built on a positive feedback loop. Obsession with thinness drives low body weight, and low body weight increases the obsession. Most anorexics get worse when not being treated. This is one of the reason it has such a staggeringly high mortality rate.

TacticalCoder 2y ago

> There are numerous sites and social media pages on all the major platforms that literally promote anorexia. Although probably a just cause I'd say that the western world does have an obesity problem though, not an anorexia one. So a better example would be all the sites encouraging people being lazy and fat and eating junk while labelling anything criticizing the unhealthiness of obesity as supposedly engaging in "fat shaming". I mean: even using the term "fat shaming" is encouraging fat people to stay fat. And that's promoting eating disorders IMO. So: fighting anorexia, sure. But we got bigger fishes (literally) to deal with if the (laudable) goal is to fight eating disorders.

dTal 2y ago
>the western world does have an obesity problem though, not an anorexia one It has both, and they are linked. It is a false ontology to place them in opposition, just because one is "too fat" and the other "too thin". It's also very arguable that obesity is the "worse" problem. Yes it causes negative health outcomes, and is more widespread, but anorexia is more immediately and dramatically harmful, even fatal, and disproportionately affects teenagers during a critical growth phase, often causing irreversible disfigurement.
- 0xcde4c3db 2y ago
  Also, it's become pretty clear that anorexia embodies a particular kind of dysfunctional dynamic between body perception and diet (one that is gaining recognition in other forms of dietary restriction, as sometimes seen in e.g. athletes and people obsessed with various categorizations of "natural" or "pure" foods). The vast majority of obese people aren't building an elaborate system of memes and rituals to force themselves to overeat because they look in the mirror and see themselves as thinner than they really are.
jfengel 2y ago
The anorexia problem is part of the obesity problem. Young girls (and increasingly, young boys) see all the pressure to be skinny and at the same time are surrounded by food designed to make them fat. They respond by swearing off food entirely. They are terrified of becoming fat, and literally see their bodies as fat even as they are about to die of starvation. Fixing the numerous causes of obesity would definitely help. But it's not made easier by the existence of "pro-ana" social media which encourages young anorexics to reinforce each other's dangerous attitudes to food.