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Because it makes computer slower and people pay for compute. I think consumer systems do it. macos shows the "quit some app, you're out of ram" but the system

Because it makes computer slower and people pay for compute. I think consumer systems do it. macos shows the "quit some app, you're out of ram" but the system itself works. but if you are asking that OS knows this is containers process and this is control plane process and treat them differently, I think no one does that. Imagine how frustrating would it be if your os does it wrongly and you end up paying 10x because the os nerfed your main process because it thought something more important was running

TeMPOraL 2y ago
> Imagine how frustrating would it be if your os does it wrongly and you end up paying 10x because the os nerfed your main process because it thought something more important was running Imagine how frustrating it is when the Linux on your desktop suddenly decides to start randomly killing processes, or worse, attempts to swap some memory out, causing a feedback loop of delays that completely freezes the system until you power-cycle the machine. That's one of the two things Windows always did better (the other thing is disabling write buffering for removable storage, on the account of that storage being, well, removable). Resource limits are not something you want to discover when you've exceeded them; they need to be managed and alerted about in advance. "Makes computer slower" and alerting the "people who pay for compute" is preferable to crashing - especially in distributed systems, where failures cascade (particularly when the whole system has been penny-pinched / overoptimized to the same degree as any single computer within it).
- throwaway290 2y ago
  > That's one of the two things Windows always did better Someone replied about cgroups on Linux and how it is bog standard stuff (that ClosedAI just didn't know how to use apparently?)
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
yuliyp 2y ago
> OS knows this is containers process and this is control plane process and treat them differently, I think no one does that cgroups on Linux does exactly this, and are a standard part of ensuring that containers don't exceed their allocated resources.
- dotancohen 2y ago
  Most software running on w Linux server are not running in a container, which itself has (minimal) resource overhead. Unless you are talking about VMs in cloud computing, but even in those cases the VM is usually abstracted away and the end client only sees a VPS (e.g. with EC2 or GCE).
  - yuliyp 2y ago
    You don't need containers to use cgroups. For instance, systemd uses cgroups to control resource allocation to various services.
- throwaway290 2y ago
  OK with some configuration a server OS can do it too. Looks like ClosedAI doesn't pay sysadmins enough if they did not configure such a standard thing.
  - yuliyp 2y ago
    I was replying to your comment where you suggested that OS-level resource reservation wasn't a thing that happened in production systems. The situation here is that a single process was being overloaded by one type of load, preventing it from doing the other things that process was responsible for. Making that work properly would require load-shedding/prioritization within the process itself.
    - throwaway290 2y ago
      > Kubernetes API servers saturated because they were receiving too much traffic. Once that happened, the API servers no longer functioned properly. As a consequence, their DNS-based service discovery mechanism ultimately failed I am not sure where it is about "one process"?

TeMPOraL 2y ago

> Imagine how frustrating would it be if your os does it wrongly and you end up paying 10x because the os nerfed your main process because it thought something more important was running Imagine how frustrating it is when the Linux on your desktop suddenly decides to start randomly killing processes, or worse, attempts to swap some memory out, causing a feedback loop of delays that completely freezes the system until you power-cycle the machine. That's one of the two things Windows always did better (the other thing is disabling write buffering for removable storage, on the account of that storage being, well, removable). Resource limits are not something you want to discover when you've exceeded them; they need to be managed and alerted about in advance. "Makes computer slower" and alerting the "people who pay for compute" is preferable to crashing - especially in distributed systems, where failures cascade (particularly when the whole system has been penny-pinched / overoptimized to the same degree as any single computer within it).

throwaway290 2y ago
> That's one of the two things Windows always did better Someone replied about cgroups on Linux and how it is bog standard stuff (that ClosedAI just didn't know how to use apparently?)

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

yuliyp 2y ago

> OS knows this is containers process and this is control plane process and treat them differently, I think no one does that cgroups on Linux does exactly this, and are a standard part of ensuring that containers don't exceed their allocated resources.

dotancohen 2y ago
Most software running on w Linux server are not running in a container, which itself has (minimal) resource overhead. Unless you are talking about VMs in cloud computing, but even in those cases the VM is usually abstracted away and the end client only sees a VPS (e.g. with EC2 or GCE).
- yuliyp 2y ago
  You don't need containers to use cgroups. For instance, systemd uses cgroups to control resource allocation to various services.
throwaway290 2y ago
OK with some configuration a server OS can do it too. Looks like ClosedAI doesn't pay sysadmins enough if they did not configure such a standard thing.
- yuliyp 2y ago
  I was replying to your comment where you suggested that OS-level resource reservation wasn't a thing that happened in production systems. The situation here is that a single process was being overloaded by one type of load, preventing it from doing the other things that process was responsible for. Making that work properly would require load-shedding/prioritization within the process itself.
  - throwaway290 2y ago
    > Kubernetes API servers saturated because they were receiving too much traffic. Once that happened, the API servers no longer functioned properly. As a consequence, their DNS-based service discovery mechanism ultimately failed I am not sure where it is about "one process"?