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"In other words, you have built exactly zero commercial-grade applications that us the working programmers work on building every day." The majority of program
by peab 2y ago
"In other words, you have built exactly zero commercial-grade applications that us the working programmers work on building every day."
The majority of programmers getting paid a good salary are implementing other people's ideas. You're getting paid to be some PMs chatGPT
- anhner 2y ago> You're getting paid to be some PMs chatGPT yes but one that actually works
- pdimitar 2y agoI never said we are working on new ideas only -- that's impossible. I even gave several examples of the traits that a commercial code must have and that LLMs fail to generate such code. Not sure why you ignored that.
- PaulDavisThe1st 2y ago> LLMs fail to generate such code As another oldster, yes, yes absolutely. But the deeper question is: can this change? They can't do the job now, will they be able to in the future? My understanding of what LLM's do/how they work suggests a strong "no". I'm not confident about my confidence, however.
- pdimitar 2y agoI am sure it can change. Ultimately programming we be completely lost; we are going to hand-wave and command computers inside us or inside the walls of our houses. This absolutely will happen. But my issue is with people that claim we are either at that point, or very nearly it. ...No, we are not. We are not even 10% there. I am certain LLMs will be a crucial part of such a general AI one day but it's quite funny how people mistake the brain's frontal lobe with the entire brain. :)
- datadrivenangel 2y agoPlenty of jobs for coming by to read the logs across 6 systems when the LLM applications break and can't fix themselves.
- pdimitar 2y agoYep, quite correct. I am even fixing one small app currently that the business owner generated with ChatGPT. So this entire discussion here is doubly amusing for me.
- soco 2y agoJust like we were fixing last year the PowerApps-generated apps (or any other low/no code app) the citizens developers slapped together.
- harimau777 2y agoThe question is how those jobs will pay. That seems like something that might not be able to demand a living wage.
- pdimitar 2y agoIf it can't demand a living wage then senior programmers will not be doing it, leading to this software remaining defective. What _that_ will lead to we have no idea because we don't know what kind of software.
- nosbo 2y agoIf everyone prompts code. Less people will actually know what they're doing?
- pdimitar 2y agoThat's the part many LLM proponents don't get it or hand-wave away. For now LLMs can produce okay one-off / throwaway code by having been fed with StackOverflow and Reddit. What happens 5 years down the road when half the programmers are actually prompters? I'll stick to my "old-school" programming. I seem to have a very wealthy near-retirement period in front of me. I'll make gobs of money just by not having forgotten how to do programming.
- frontfor 2y agoYou’re completely missing the point. The point being made isn’t about “are we implementing someone else’s idea”. It’s about the complexity and trade-offs and tough calls we have to make in a production system.