7 ms·

You should go to the funeral if you think the right thing is to go to the funeral You should do it for yourself, out of respect for the person who died and res

You should go to the funeral if you think the right thing is to go to the funeral You should do it for yourself, out of respect for the person who died and respect for the loved ones remaining. Not out of societal obligation The corollary to that is there are plenty of times where the right thing is to not go to the funeral. If you lack those things. There have been times I don’t go the funeral. Because the dead person was a horrible person. When people asked, I said exactly that and many times the response I got was “man I wish I had not gone”

lambdaphagy 2y ago
I recently had the occasion to visit the deathbed of a relative who died with much of his family deeply wounded by, and angry at, him. Had you known him, you might have called him a horrible person and not without some backing for that claim. But I went because I felt a duty to my relatives that isn’t released just because they didn’t hold up their end of the bargain: he had indirectly given me life, even if he had done much ill besides. And moreover I felt an obligation to the office of the head of my family that transcended the particular man. It would be a grim world in which comfort for the grieving is a service the deceased must have earned in advance, and we the comforters decide whether they have really earned it.
- I-M-S 2y ago
  By being too lenient towards those who have not deserved it, we are being unjust towards those who have.
  - lambdaphagy 2y ago
    I guess I've just never felt as though my condolences for a grieving family were a prize to be earned.
coldtea 2y ago
>You should go to the funeral if you think the right thing is to go to the funeral. You should do it for yourself, out of respect for the person who died and respect for the loved ones remaining. Not out of societal obligation In 2024 it would be quite better if we did more things out of societal obligation, instead of each individual placing themselves (and their whims) as the moral authority.
- anal_reactor 2y ago
  I'm tired, boss
  - coldtea 2y ago
    You haven't tried...
- brabel 2y ago
  A world where people only do what they want or feel like doing is indeed a pretty depressing world, I know because that's exactly the world I am living in. The world I grew up on was very different, and I absolutely miss it - Christmas parties, lots of birthday parties, church events, school events, local neighbourhood events... you name it, there were lots of things to do and go to and you were expected to. I think half of the time I didn't really want to, but it didn't cross my mind to say I didn't want to go, and I think that was much, much better - today I barely go anywhere, but I know people also won't come if I call them :( it's just such a sad world.
  - athenot 2y ago
    These things still exist, but they sometimes take time to discover and even longer to gain a sense of belonging. I like to call them "tribes" but really it's just a community. Sometimes the intersection of your { interests + location } may not have a vibrant community which happens to contain members who readily welcome new people, and so it requires a bit more effort. Some examples of communities I've been a part of over the years: - Family - Church groups - Bar buddies (overlapping with the previous category :)) - Biker community - Startup community - Technology groups - Queer communities - Neighbor groups It was a lot harder to get into groups when I used to be introverted, I distinctly remember how afraid I was. My startup was the thing that forced me way out of my comfort zone and led me to learn how to overcome my fears of joining groups full of unknown people. The "ah-ha" moment was when I realized many others had the same fears and insecurities as I did, and yet that's ok.
watwut 2y ago
> Not out of societal obligation Societal obligation in this case is literally basic minor respect towards the remaining people. And frankly, the loneliness epidemic HN like to talk about is closely related to the ideology where the only thing that matters is yourself.
the_snooze 2y ago
>You should go to the funeral if you think the right thing is to go to the funeral More broadly, your actions are a reflection of your values. If there's a mismatch, then one of two things must be true: you fell short of your ideals and you should strive to do better in the future, or your stated values really aren't your values.
D13Fd 2y ago
> There have been times I don’t go the funeral. Because the dead person was a horrible person. The funeral is a ritual for the people who knew and loved the dead person. The question should really be about them, rather than the deceased who is dead and gone.
- plorkyeran 2y ago
  And if those people are going to be talking about how great someone I despised was, it's best for all of us if I stay home.
  - throwaway346434 2y ago
    Slightly disagree, only in that the people who supported the horrible person should hear the terrible acts done. Otherwise, yes. No comfort to those who comfort/enable abusers.
  - soco 2y ago
    I hear this argument again and again, that the dead was despised thus the funeral should not be attended. Really folks, if all people you know are to be despised, then maybe the problem is not with them? Sure, there always is the occasional asshole, but it's not always the one in the coffin, so indeed then there might be times when we should just stay home for the better of everybody.
NoMoreNicksLeft 2y ago
You aren't punishing the dead person by not going. Just punishing what friends and family he or she had, out of spite. Making enemies. I mean when you say "horrible person" you're not talking about Adolf Hitler or Pol Pot, you're just talking about someone you thought (rightly or wrongly) an asshole. Now you've made yourself the asshole to other people. Not a great life strategy.
- qup 2y ago
  You made a lot of assumptions in your post just so you could wag your finger at the GP.
  - NoMoreNicksLeft 2y ago
    I assumed that the deceased wasn't Pol Pot. Was there another assumption?

lambdaphagy 2y ago

I recently had the occasion to visit the deathbed of a relative who died with much of his family deeply wounded by, and angry at, him. Had you known him, you might have called him a horrible person and not without some backing for that claim. But I went because I felt a duty to my relatives that isn’t released just because they didn’t hold up their end of the bargain: he had indirectly given me life, even if he had done much ill besides. And moreover I felt an obligation to the office of the head of my family that transcended the particular man. It would be a grim world in which comfort for the grieving is a service the deceased must have earned in advance, and we the comforters decide whether they have really earned it.

I-M-S 2y ago
By being too lenient towards those who have not deserved it, we are being unjust towards those who have.
- lambdaphagy 2y ago
  I guess I've just never felt as though my condolences for a grieving family were a prize to be earned.

coldtea 2y ago

>You should go to the funeral if you think the right thing is to go to the funeral. You should do it for yourself, out of respect for the person who died and respect for the loved ones remaining. Not out of societal obligation In 2024 it would be quite better if we did more things out of societal obligation, instead of each individual placing themselves (and their whims) as the moral authority.

anal_reactor 2y ago
I'm tired, boss
- coldtea 2y ago
  You haven't tried...
brabel 2y ago
A world where people only do what they want or feel like doing is indeed a pretty depressing world, I know because that's exactly the world I am living in. The world I grew up on was very different, and I absolutely miss it - Christmas parties, lots of birthday parties, church events, school events, local neighbourhood events... you name it, there were lots of things to do and go to and you were expected to. I think half of the time I didn't really want to, but it didn't cross my mind to say I didn't want to go, and I think that was much, much better - today I barely go anywhere, but I know people also won't come if I call them :( it's just such a sad world.
- athenot 2y ago
  These things still exist, but they sometimes take time to discover and even longer to gain a sense of belonging. I like to call them "tribes" but really it's just a community. Sometimes the intersection of your { interests + location } may not have a vibrant community which happens to contain members who readily welcome new people, and so it requires a bit more effort. Some examples of communities I've been a part of over the years: - Family - Church groups - Bar buddies (overlapping with the previous category :)) - Biker community - Startup community - Technology groups - Queer communities - Neighbor groups It was a lot harder to get into groups when I used to be introverted, I distinctly remember how afraid I was. My startup was the thing that forced me way out of my comfort zone and led me to learn how to overcome my fears of joining groups full of unknown people. The "ah-ha" moment was when I realized many others had the same fears and insecurities as I did, and yet that's ok.

watwut 2y ago

> Not out of societal obligation Societal obligation in this case is literally basic minor respect towards the remaining people. And frankly, the loneliness epidemic HN like to talk about is closely related to the ideology where the only thing that matters is yourself.

the_snooze 2y ago

>You should go to the funeral if you think the right thing is to go to the funeral More broadly, your actions are a reflection of your values. If there's a mismatch, then one of two things must be true: you fell short of your ideals and you should strive to do better in the future, or your stated values really aren't your values.

D13Fd 2y ago

> There have been times I don’t go the funeral. Because the dead person was a horrible person. The funeral is a ritual for the people who knew and loved the dead person. The question should really be about them, rather than the deceased who is dead and gone.

plorkyeran 2y ago
And if those people are going to be talking about how great someone I despised was, it's best for all of us if I stay home.
- throwaway346434 2y ago
  Slightly disagree, only in that the people who supported the horrible person should hear the terrible acts done. Otherwise, yes. No comfort to those who comfort/enable abusers.
- soco 2y ago
  I hear this argument again and again, that the dead was despised thus the funeral should not be attended. Really folks, if all people you know are to be despised, then maybe the problem is not with them? Sure, there always is the occasional asshole, but it's not always the one in the coffin, so indeed then there might be times when we should just stay home for the better of everybody.

NoMoreNicksLeft 2y ago

You aren't punishing the dead person by not going. Just punishing what friends and family he or she had, out of spite. Making enemies. I mean when you say "horrible person" you're not talking about Adolf Hitler or Pol Pot, you're just talking about someone you thought (rightly or wrongly) an asshole. Now you've made yourself the asshole to other people. Not a great life strategy.

qup 2y ago
You made a lot of assumptions in your post just so you could wag your finger at the GP.
- NoMoreNicksLeft 2y ago
  I assumed that the deceased wasn't Pol Pot. Was there another assumption?